CFS thread February 2007

Hi,
I am interested in contacting someone who has got through cfs/me stuff to find out whether i should sell my car and change my lifestyle as i am not sure what happens after recovery.Do you ever get back some physical abilities?.

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I'm sorry you are suffering from cfs (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for those not familiar with this). It is a difficult disease to cope with. If any of the list members have recovered from this disease, please write! I'll put some of the responses on the cfs threads part of the gateway site.

http://www.kundalini-gateway.org/threads/th_cfs.html

It does seem to be a disease that some spiritual seekers suffer from. But by no means all, or even a majority.
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org/polls/po_heal2.html See further below for excerpt from the poll.

Many people think that the "purpose" of cfs is to enforce surrender.

>Do you have to give up the physical world in order to live in the spiritual world?

Not as a general rule! ;)

Love, Hillary

from: http://www.kundalini-gateway.org/polls/po_heal2.html

38 people responded to the poll or on health issues.

Despite the fact that those who are in ill health are probably more inclined to respond, there was a pretty even number of healthy vs unhealthy respondents.

Some statistics:

There are about 777 members of the k list

CFS is present in at least .2% (.002) of the US population. (Some say .2 to 2.0 and up to 4%)
At least 7 people on the list have CFS (.0090) which is a little less than 1% So this is very high--over 4 times the norm if the norm is .2%, but within range if the norm turns out to be 1% or higher.
FMS (Fibromyalgia) is present in at least 2% of the US population (some say 2-10%)
At least 6 people on the list have Fibromyalgia (.0077) which is less than 1/2 of one percent. So this is actually much lower than the norm.
Graves disease is present in 1/4 of 1% of the US population (.0025) At least 4 people on the list have graves disease which .005 of the K list population--about double the normal rate.

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From what I have found through my own personal experience is that CFS is usually a result of going against my soul purpose. In simple terms..... surrendering to total acceptance, love and compassion for myself. Have a love affair with your higher self.

I have also found that when 'down' there, it can be difficult to get out of the down spiral on your own. Seek out a Kinesiologist in your area (preferably one that specialises in emotional work eg Kinergetics or similiar), so you can get insight into the unconscious/subconscious that is running the show in the background. Once you have insight into the sabatoges and fears behind the scene, this will empower you to take steps to change the situation, they will also be able to clear a lot of emotional stuff at a cellular level.. I have also found, that a predominantly raw food diet helps..... switches us over from acid to alkaline...... and also switches the emotions over from 'negative' to 'positive'. Whenever I tip back over to the acid side, I feel sluggish, depressed and unmotivated.....and fatigued.... so I no choose that for myself now..... but I am not perfect..... just in the process...

Hope this helps

Love and Blessings

Barb

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I'm reading a book called "Soul Mind Body Medicine" by Dr. Zhi Gang Sha. He is a Western medical doctor as well as a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner.

He discusses the phenomonen of too much or too little energy around the cells in the context of energy imbalances. He says that the majority of people (85-90%) have an excess of energy around the cells which manifests in sickness as tumors, cancer, AIDS and most emotional imbalances. He says that degenerative changes including chronic fatigue, osteoporosis, fibromyalgia, Alzheimers and Parkinsons are due to "not enough" energy around the cells (10-15%).

So in essence, sickness is basically energy imbalance that needs to be:
dissipated (in the case of excess) or
accumulated (in the less common case of not enough).

His book offers very practical tools for supporting both solutions. It has been a "God-send" for me.
He stresses that we are all healers with the ability to heal ourselves. He suggests healing the soul first and mind/body healing automatically comes naturally. It comes down to serving mankind unconditionally and remembering that we are all universal servants of love, forgiveness, peace, healing, blessing, harmony and enlightenment.

Love and Light,

MaryAnn

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I have another solution for you. Sometimes K is awakened and you are not ready. It is blocked. From a TCM point of view, your Yin and your Yang is not balance. Spiritual point of view, your central channel is block and K rushes to where it should not be.

You can use Qi-gong to alleviate the imbalance and also uses meditation to help you clear the blockage. You can, if you want to, do a basic qi-gong breathing called the belly breathing. Fill your abdomen as much as possible through the nostril and breathe out slowly, also through the nostril. At the same time while breathing in, imagine that energy is moving from the perineum up the spine and touch the crown and land on the point between your brow. Conversely, while breathing out, energy coming in from the brow, touching the crown and down the perineum.

The central channel is a bluish, strawlike tube. I hope this helps.

Sam P.S. I have help someone with this technique who gets exhausted easily. I hope , it is useful to you.

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Hi,

No i don't want to do yoga as fibre or fibrous nerves rub up against muscle (i guess) and cause inflammation like rubbing two sticks together.Some breathing might be o'k as long as it does not raise energy as it causes blocking. When i stop the prana raising, the fibrous material becomes dryer or has a dry feeling (ie no inflammation).Pranayama might help with my balance and focus problems.

Thanks for your ideas.

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Hi,
Thanks for help, hillary and others.I will try an read stuff.i have given up yoga and meditation and all this stuff as i go into blocking mode as soon as i raise energy.It gets stuck in a nerve point (chakra?) somewhere and flares.The only stuff i do is walk and a type off breathing out with i made up ie no breathing in.These lumps in my body seem to be located at the chakra point so i think my body is building or enhancing the chakra points.they feel like plates of fibre but some at the root groin area seem to have shrunk.i think when they all will shrink and then it will be o'k and maybe they will not interfere with muscles etc. I think Gandhi had similiar stuff going on as he complained of 'lumps' in his body.
I think cfs/me happens because of never being spiritual before.I mean not having any touch of spirituality in life before.
These are just my ideas.
Like em or leave then.
O'k.

Steve J

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Hi,

All that we have mentioned is just an option if medical science is unable to be of much help. Use your own discernment to decide what is best for yourself, as you will know your own condition. The visualization I mentioned is to ease the flow of your energy and to clear your blockages in the central channel. Actually, most chakras lies in the spinal area.

Good luck.

Sam

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Hi Steve,

I agree with Sam Lim. Basically I would also suggest that you do some simple Hatha Yoga Asanas to physically release blocked energies, followed by deep abdominal breathing you could also try 1 of the various methods of Pranayama ( I use the 3:12:6 ratio.. i.e. 3 counts inhalation from the right nostril, 12 counts breath retention with left & right nostrils closed and 6 counts exhalation from the left nostril... then do the same 3:12:6 ratio from the left nostril inhalation and ending the exhalation with your right nostril; that constitute one round ), try doing 5 rounds.

Finally meditate regularly, here's a very beautiful Guided CD Meditation called Chakra Dhyana ( it's a Chakra Meditation using the Bija Sounds ) http://www.heartofhealing.net/cdpage/ChakraDhyana.html I strongly recommend.

I hope that helps. Last but not least I'm willing to help you through 6 levels of Lightarian Clearing attunements just contact my email for the detailed information.

Namaste,
Liv Avtar Singh
Founder
Cosmic Kundalini Yoga Indonesia

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The incredible rainbow of insights that are coming from the responses is a true miracle and joy to read. :)

//Gustaf

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An alternative perspective on what Hillary just said is some of the workings of energy. It's been observed that not only a lack of energy, but -too much- energy can bring about fatigue, tiredness and aching. Kind of like pushing a lake through a straw. It may feel very taxing.

I have noticed too that many people who have cfs, fibromyalgia and so on are often psychic and/or highly aware people, in particular women. Also very often strong empaths. I've met quite a few of them, for some reason I tend to encounter and talk with them fairly often. Maybe because I see something in them and they see something in me that is mutually beneficial for our evolution.

I've had physical issues too. Mostly related to heat, burning, various skin issues and some very odd allergies that have come and suddenly disappeared later on.

Intuitively I feel that what you could work on with many of these fatigue-like problems is to spend a lot of time in the body. I learned from Eckhart Tolle's teachings something called "inner body awareness", which has been very good for me. It simply means moving the full attention inside the body, to feel it from within, become aware of the life within it and the vastness of it. I've found that it also dissolves any karma that shows up while in this state. Kinda like turning on the grill and everything fries that shows its head. :)

This state happens to me naturally most of the time, and deep enough inside, there is no pain, no tiredness, no nervousness, nothing. Yet it is so radiant and intense.

I remember one evening in particular when I had a horrible headache and my body felt tired and achy, and my skin felt irritated and dry. Spontaneously I entered this state -through- the body, not away from it. Light flooded me, along with a peacefulness and joy. I can't really say all that much about it, but there was no headache, there was no dryness, and there was no tiredness, yet, I was there, deep within the body, and at the same time, the body wasn't there.

Coming back out from that state, sitting in the room, there was no headache or tiredness even then. It took 1-2 minutes before it started to slowly return. It was not like a painkiller, it was deep sensitivity.

Not long ago I asked my inner guidance, how to be more present in the body. The response was: "What body? Don't worry about the body" The feeling response was an inner vision of how what I perceive to be solid matter are atoms, and subparticles with vast space between them, and deeper in it all consists of practically nothing.. Yes, I am the body! But not a solid, unchangeable and separate entity.

I would warmly recommend going deep inside the body and feel it deeply and earnestly. It is very rewarding!

Thanks!

Gustaf

> Many people think that the "purpose" of cfs is to enforce surrender.
> > >Do you have to give up the physical world in order to live in the > spiritual > world?

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Hi Steve,

Here is a url for your reading. Hope you find it useful.

http://www.aypsite.org/69.html

Sam

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I have scoliosis. I have had bad symptoms but yours sound much more debilitating than mine ever were. I was never diagnosed with CFS and never felt that I had to. After a while I learned to bulldoze a way through many of the debilitating symptoms and I am in better condition now than before I was awakened to K, I feel.

Years ago I was focusing on my body and got many impulses and ideas on how to move the energy in my body. Later this information seemed to be proven correct. I had reasoned that a certain area of my spine needed considerable adjustment and my chiropractor confirmed that this was the problematic area that was causing pains throughout my body. I also learned about moving energy through my body at a beginner level. These techniques seemed to be dealt with in Tai Chi.

My advice is to listen and explore, see what comes up. Doing this helped me.

Do you have to give up the physical world to live the spiritual? Not really. Whether you are living in the physical world, an insane asylum, another planet, or some other type of world, spirit is there.

Scott

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Hi,

I used to have migraine and all sorts of headaches during my teen years. I do not have a good childhood. You can say I am a abused kid.

Not until in my thirties, I started to focus on the pain itself and at the same time relax my whole body including my facial muscles. Then the pain is leaving by itself. I do not have those migraines anymore. Perhaps also, at that time I have just started to understanding the futility of thinking too much or to worry about things that I am unable to rectify in my life.

Contemplating on pain is a great reliever of pain for me. I do not know if it will work for you but it's worth a try.

The keyword word is still letting go (surrender) and that is very important.

Sam

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Previous CFS thread

I was looking at http://www.thesoulsjourney.com/kundalini.html and it talks about the K process as being mistaken as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I got CFS right after my K awakening. Is it possible that the CFS isn't CFS but a symptom of the K process? Not that it makes it easier, but it might make it seem more worthwhile to go through and possibly more optimistic in terms of recovery.

What do people think about CFS and the K process? Has anyone had similar experiences to me? Has anyone found that balancing the chakras has helped there CFS. What has helped?

G.

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I first became physically "ill" three summers ago after a trip to England with what doctors could only call chronic fatigue syndrome. It started with a period of heat attacks for a few weeks, progressed to stiff painful neck, and segued into a three day burning brain experience that seemed to break my ability to sleep. I did not sleep a wink for fourteen days straight and thought it would kill me. My doctor's eyebrows shot up when I told her the sleeping pills she'd prescribed were not working. I was terribly weak and ill, exhausted. Intelligent energy ran through my body and seemed to stop at all my old scars and wounds. I itched insanely at times and had sensations of an invisible weight dropping over me. My throat would become thick feeling and I would not be able to swallow

whoops, clicked send accidentally. Where was I? Couldn't swallow, I think. Anyway, ... I saw eleven doctors over that year and all they could come up with was cfs. I cleaned up my act, stopped all medications and have gradually overcome a lot of my fatigue problems by simply not fighting this process I'm in. I have accepted that I must rest more than I used to. I rearranged my life to accomodate my body's demand that I lie down for a while in the middle of the afternoon, and now I have periods of pretty heavy hypnagogic activity during these "naps" that I think are the reason for the fatigue. To force me to lie down and experience the energy and be "worked on," if that makes sense. Interestingly, the spiritual part of the whole deal didn't start for me till after a year and a half of miserable "mystery illness." Then I started having extraordinary dreams and understandings, started finding stuff about kundalini online and recognized my experience in those of others.

So... my advice is: don't fight it. Accomodate it. Be grateful for the changes it is forcing on you. There is probably some kind of great wisdom behind it. I bet when you stop looking at it as a flaw or illness, stop fighting it, everything will improve.

with love,

S.

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I have problems with chronic fatigue, anxiety disorder, panic attacks, insomnia and depression. I do take medications for it, but like you I found it necessary to re-arrange my lifestyle. I try to eat through out the day, small things, like a banana or yogurt, drink a can of Ensure, instead of having big meals and that seems to help a lot. I also need naps in the afternoon at times. And I also take herbs, which seem to help, but I have just started those in the past couple months, so I don't know what the long term effects will be, but so far they seem to be helping a lot. (I started taking them when I had an accident for healing purposes but found they help in other ways also) But all of this didn't start with K, I experienced K very early in life, altho it took me a long while to understand it. It is only in the last two years that I have had these medical problems. So I'm not sure the medical problems are connected with K in any way or if they are a seperate issue, altho it might be different for each person. I agree with you, trying to fight it just makes it harder. I am very stubborn and tried hard to fight it, until I finally just gave into it and said I'm not going to get better unless I make some changes and accept this and let others help me too. Balancing the chakra's helps a lot too I have found. And there are good days and bad days, and I've learned to accept that too and take it easy on myself on the bad ones.

Blessings

M.

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I didn't go to a doctor to have my symptoms diagnosed as CFS - it was a general feeling that I had. It came after two very difficult years, and I suppose I was probably quite exhausted. The symptoms came on after a trip to Sri Lanka, where I experienced the intense energies of the old cities and Sri Pada. Unfortunately meditation made the symptoms worse!

Looking back on it now, I realise I was in the process of letting go of a lot of old stuff, like my old persona, my former career as a marketing professional, some obsessional tendencies driven by anxiety (I was obsessional about meditation among other things), anger towards my family, in particular my mother, etc, etc. In the process I was learning to accept myself and love myself as I really am. I was also learning to allow the gentle, nurturing side to have more space, as before I operated almost entirely from the masculine. So, for me it was about coming back to a state of balance, and I see that time as a state of hibernation in preparation for the next phase in my life.

I can completely understand your frustration. It was really difficult for me, as I've been a go-getter for as long as I can remember, so not having any energy to leave the flat or to even meditate was incredibly frustrating. It may not be what you want to hear, but I really think the best thing you can do is to be gentle with yourself and accept what's happening. Perhaps you can take the time to reflect on your life. Maybe seek counselling, or perhaps work with another sort of healer. I'm a psychotherapy student, so I have counselling every week, which is a great thing for me. I also have been working with a homeopath, and I combined the two therapies to help me build my self-esteem so that I could allow my soul nature to be expressed more fully - without fear. Finally, I decided to leave a career that I didn't like, and I've now embarked full-time on a healing path. So many doors have opened since I made that decision. It has been a great experience and helped me tremendously. The fatigue lasted for six months, but I now feel stronger and wiser and more grounded, and most importantly I know myself better than I ever did, and I love and respect all bits of me, even the tired and the not-so-nice bits. I couldn't have said that in December last year.

That's my story, and I hope that has helped you in some way. I can feel your desperation, and I know how unpleasant it is. I would suggest that you be kind to yourself - don't beat yourself up for feeling this way. Give yourself the space to rest if that's possible. Use the time that you would have spent meditating to sleep or read in bed or listen to music - or whatever makes you happy. It's a natural and probably very necessary healing phase that you need to go through, and you'll be grateful for it when it's all over.

My heart goes out to you.

L.

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Hello Steve:

I see CFS as a weakened immune system. And you may consider looking at all the different areas of your life that are affecting your immune system. It gets a bit more difficult when this stuff is unconscious but this can all be made conscious. It's important to get out of the victim role which is easy to fall into when one is ill.

Have you had an opportunity to see the movie "What The Bleep Do We Know". I really recommend it. There is a point in the movie where it is shown that loving/accepting yourself is part the way to reverse all kinds of physical damage done by our thoughts. A letting go of all the addictive thoughts that create chemicals that damage our bodies cells.

Many years ago Louise Hay ,(an author),had a mirror exercise. She looked in a mirror hundreds of times a day and told herself she loved herself. At some point she really meant it and her cancer went away.

-S-

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Hi,

I see CFS as what some people on the list say it is caused by having too much prana in the body and the body is not able to handle it.But there is also fatique caused by the physical building of a new nervous system.The normal body cannot handle the lumps in the body and they rub up on muscle and cause inflammation and physical restrictions.

What if an ordinary person wanted to be 'psychic'? If he did not inherit it, the only other choice is to build a new nervous system to carry prana.

I don't see it as a weakened immune system.
I see it as new nervous system under construction.

Steve J

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Hi Steve:

Ah, yes very good points you raised. I relate very well to the lumps rubbing on muscle causing inflammation and pain. I know this as myofascial pain. And it sure does cause inflammtion, pain, & tiredness. I sought some treatment for this and my health has improved. But still a ways to go.

-S-

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Hi,

It's great to talk to someone who has an understanding of the pain and inflammation.I am interested in any new ideas about this problem.I will look up the word 'myofascial' to find out more about this stuff,

Thanks,
Steve J

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Hi List,

My advice is based on my pesonal experience of recovering from RSI.v Myofascial Pain Syndrome is I believe a type of Musclular Skeletal Disorder. If you look up medical sites on this stuff you will see a bewildering variety of terms & diagnoses that show the medical community is confused and doesn't know how to fix these problems very well.
They lack the holistic multi-system view where the answers are found.

Other MSD;s are Repetitive Strain injury (RSI), back pain, tension headaches, scoliosis and many many more.v

The advice & info on these sites is relevant. www.selfcare4rsi - explains what goes wrong with the muscle/fascia. www.rsirescue.com - has an excellent diagram showing the many factors involved.

Medical people that understand these things and how to fix them are very rare - if they are familiar with the term MSD they are more likely to know something.
The answer seems to lie in body therapies and mind/body work - these answers have been found in practice not as a result of scientific research which is why the medical communitiy haven't woken up to them and often they scoff at them.
Massage & stretching can be used to help sore muscles and completely heals many.

I believe the underlying problem is excess muscle tension and that help for these things is best got through de-stressing. I got rid of my RSI using Alexander Technique which then led me to trying kundalini yoga which can be very good. I also do Zen meditation. If you are in much pain K yoga may be problematic. Meditation should help. The thing is to see & feel a reduction in muscle tension. If that's not happening you need to try something else. Paying a hypnotist to teach you self-hypnosis may help you get more benefit from meditation. Also getting some Alexander Technique lessons will help with yoga. If you have lots of money & a good AT teacher that may well fix you up on your own.

People with psychological problems usually have very high tension and the mental affects of muscle de-stressing are quite large. If this is your situation I think AT may be the gentlest safest way to change. A supportive buddhist group may be good too. Kundalini yoga is powerful - it can be fast if you really want to change and are prepared to work hard and go through much disquiet.

These are my views - not medical advice. I trained to be an AT teacher for 1 year and now am training to teach Kundalini yoga. So I know a bit but am not a real expert.

Keith.

ps mailing lists for RSI - many people on these lists have myofascial pain. there is much disagreement and argument on them (often involving me!) - give more credence to advice from people who got better - not from people who still suffer! Take support from all - there is much there.

USA
http://www.sorehand.org/

UK
http://www.rsi-uk.org.uk/