To: K-list
Recieved: 2004/08/25 00:00
Subject: Re: [K-list] new to list - K and insomnia?
From: PJM
On 2004/08/25 00:00, PJM posted thus to the K-list:
Hi Doug:
It indeed may not be K - I am open to any reasonable possibility, and I'm
not afraid of any lables if the understanding they bring helps me navigate
through this better. My discipline in zazen over the years was largely the
result of the positive impacts of zazen on depression I used to suffer from.
During my first few years of zen practice, my regimen was more along the
lines of an hour/day, and depressive episodes persisted (though they were
alleviated when I spent a year on Zoloft, but I don't consider SSRI's as a
viable long-term solution to depression). The alleviation of depression did
not happen till I upped my regime to 2hrs/day. But for now, I do plan on
doing much more body practices and eliminating the zazen for a while.
However, I found that Astanga Yoga seems to exacerbate the energy -
something about the combination of the breathing, concentration, and the
vigorous physical exertion. Exercise seems to do the same thing - a few
months back, I spend the better part of a day climbing a mountain, and it
sent me off on a weeks worth of near-sleeplessness (I was sleeping fine
before the hike). Tai Chi sounds beneficial though - it does not have the
same extreme physical exhertion component. I'll try some of those B
vitamins too.
Thanks much for your thoughts and opinions!
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Fraser" <doug_fraserATmicrocinema.com>
To: "PJM" <pjm1ATsurfglobal.net>; <k-listATKundalini-Gateway.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [K-list] new to list - K and insomnia?
> At 08:47 PM 8/23/04 -0400, PJM wrote:
> >If this is kundalini, there is very little about it that I find
> >enlightening - it is for me one big struggle, and a huge disappointment,
> >because the spritual dimension of my life has become one of the most
> >important things in my life. Other than a few "alternate reality" dreams
> >(one of which was precognitive) and an episode of sleep paralysis - ,
this
> >has been little more than a trial of endurance. I had no idea my
practice
> >would come to this sort of crisis - I get little help from my zen teacher
> >- he once said he has no idea what is going on (an admission that I am
> >somewhat disappointed with but also respect). As much as I have taken to
> >Zen practice, Zen really does not have any kind of a roadmap for dealing
> >with difficulties like this.
> >
> >So I'd be interested on hearing from other folks who might have had
> >expereinces similar to mine (at least in terms of insomnia, and what can
> >be done to help)
>
> honestly, it does not sound very much like kundalini - I am not an expert,
> so other people may be able to point you
> towards some definite info that will shed some light on your situation
> (like that top down awakening). It sounds like
> you have some prana related issues, but prana does not immediately equal
> kundalini
>
> But I can tell you for a fact that meditation does have a dark side which
> no one much likes to discuss (and not many
> know about either) - one can trigger off psychotic episodes, if one is
> prone to it - so some people shouldn't meditate.
> It sounds like you may have slid into that territory a bit for whatever
> reason - I am not casting aspersions on your sanity
> or anything - I am using "psychotic" in the clinical sense as in
> "unexplainable, must be in the patient's head, "modern"
> Western medicine doesn't understand it, so lump it all under "psychotic"
> and give the patient Valium"
>
> But my interest is in transpersonal psych, so I have heard of things like
> this. And been thru similar...
>
> But I think it's irrefutable that meditation, long term, can cause changes
> in one's biochemistry and so those changes feedback
> into your psychology as well as biology - it sounds like your biochemistry
> has hit some sort of black ice (to be metaphorical)
> and so you need to stop braking so hard and start pumping them instead (or
> steer in the direction of the skid)
>
> So I am not surprised at your symptoms, unlike your zen teacher
>
> Your discipline certainly is admirable. I wish I had it. But my advice
is
> to stop with the meditation if you think it may be
> a cause of things. Get more into the tai chi/yoga (body oriented stuff) -
> qi gong (the little I understand of it) is more
> concentrated on breath, etc so it's more like mediation. My intuition
(for
> what it's worth) says you may need to switch
> to something that is more body oriented / all over encompassing (mind +
> body) - zazen being primarily mind oriented.
> Go get some bodywork, too.
>
> I too have wrestled with insomnia - it was not k related, it was more a
> side effect/cause of depression, which all over
> was more like a "dark night of the soul" (it wasn't just a biochemistry
> thing, I feel) You don't sound depressed, but I am
> sure the stress of everything is just compounding on itself and now you're
> stuck in some sort of tailspin.
>
> I would recommend B vitamins - I found they were useful when I was having
> my problems - B vitamins are useful wrt to
> stress and depression and I found they helped with my insomnia. Valerian
> as well - and no more sleeping pills (long term
> they thoroughly disrupt your sleep such that the body can't get into the
> deep stages of sleep which one really needs - they
> only put the body into the shallow stage of sleep and then you get
> habituated...)
>
> hope some of this helps,
> doug
>
>
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