To: K-list
Recieved: 2004/08/24 09:33
Subject: RE: [K-list] Re: truth
From: Gustaf Grefberg
On 2004/08/24 09:33, Gustaf Grefberg posted thus to the K-list:
Thank you for sharing those words of wisdom!
The duck's quack will echo. If you put it in a small metal tank, or if you
record it and run it through a reverb effect. It may not echo during
"normal" circumstances, but it will echo, that's for sure.
>
> *yawn* There is no such thing as truth, in this context. The Truth, if
> there is such a thing, is only in what is, and accepting what is. All
> else
> is Maya.
>
> >very short sighted.. it will be used by someone to to achieve material
> >ends, or satisfying gross ego with dangerous consequences. which is anti
> >thesis to spiritual integrity
>
> Materialism and science are attempts by the physical self to map a
> phyiscal
> space. Consequently, they are ego-based and fraught with dead ends,
> illusions, and false assumptions. The reason for this is obvious --
> physicality is not a closed system, but rather a 4-dimensional
> representation of higher-order phenomena.
>
> For instance, one's shadow is similar to oneself, it represents oneself in
> a way, but it clearly is not oneself in entirety. Further, the shadow, as
> it goes through its trials and changes and eventual disappearance when the
> sun goes down, is affected by the person or object, but the person or
> object is not necessarily affected by the shadow.
>
> >Todays Science is an infant and dwarfed system, emphasizing study with
> the
> >senses about material and that which relates to matter, motivated by
> >curiosity of the senses and satisfaction of the gross ego.
>
> Agreed. It is a flawed system doomed to continue producing results that
> have the appearance of Truth (a concept which we postulate exists but we
> cannot prove it), but only within a narrow frame of reference.
>
> Such is the way of fundamentalism. No human version of the Truth is
> better
> than any other version. They are all flawed.
>
> >But this petty little knowldege has been misused and abused with very
> >disastrous consequence .
> >
> >The sciences of virat and brahmand, each of them of completely different
> >realms, are with unmentionable power to effect change.
> >
> >just this material wealth how men tend to abuse it .. what would happen
> if
> >real wealth is given to them ..
> >
> >...........christ said so.
>
> Oh, christ said so.
>
> The abuses of the wealthy are only abusive because they perpetuate the
> illusion that one state is better than another. Your concept of "real"
> (presumably a spiritual wealth unrelated to materialism...some greater
> concept that you would call "Truth") is not significantly different from
> theirs.
>
> >well some philosophy is better than no philosophy eh...? but no
> philosophy
> >is better than nonsense !!
> >
> >About the Indian Caste system.. How over poilitisized it is...
>
> I share your opinion that the Caste is an outdated model for a
> civilization. I must admit, however, I am amazed with its genius. It is
> structurally quite sound, and well-codified, and on a gross scale quite
> rational and in many ways very efficient. However, I also would not want
> in any way to be born into it.
>
> According to Marx, within any civilization are the seeds to its
> destruction. Simultaneous to the tendency of society to refine many
> versions of "truth" or "reality" into one or a few (called a "social
> reality" by Searle), there is also a tendency of individuals to harbor
> individual realities and truths and experiences that are quite diverse and
> different from the social reality. One might consider the right to define
> and validate one's own individual reality to be inalienable, similar to
> the
> US Constitution's "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Clearly,
> we
> draw the line at actions which infringe on others' rights to do the same
> (which sets an applicable frame of reference), but the basic premise holds
> that individual freedom of thought and expression is essential to human
> happiness.
>
> It was precisely because this "right" was stifled in the Caste system that
> it fell. Being so tightly structured and rigorous, it was practically
> impossible in such a system to exercise freedom of thought or
> expression. Lower castes received the most oppressive
> treatment. Eventually, civil war would be inevitable. To its credit,
> India avoided such a fate (unlike many of its European counterparts) and
> though the Caste persists in many forms its grip on mainstream Indian
> culture has lessened.
>
> >But as for now I am done with this list, that is being merely used to
> make
> >money, to find potential innocents .... balanced with diplomatic
> comments
> >that pacify, placate and pander.. As a 25 year old grad student in
> >Aerospace Engg, in my graduating semester, I consider myself more
> >gainefully emloyed, than to waste any more of my time squabbling with the
> >egoistic, and being manipulated by devious spiritual quacks, whose
> >objective is not truth for all but, $$ for self !! and that too with the
> >exploitation of these innocents, with this website being a means.. The
> >innocent, sensitive and serious seekers, who I see in the list, I convey
> >my deep hearted regards to you and my opinion that single minded
> >desperation to the goal will only and surely get you to it, I am but just
> >another one of you.
>
> There are some people on list trolling for followers, and other trolling
> for leaders. In any open forum, there are by necessity people of all
> orientations. This is not a school for any one expression of divinity,
> but
> a place where all expressions can find some room to coexist.
>
> If something particularly bothers you about the list, I suggest you look
> inward and discover what it is about the offending orientation that
> provokes such a reaction. I have found this to be very, very enlightening
> for myself.
>
> Food for thought.
>
> Steve
>
>
> PS - A duck's quack does not echo, and no one knows why. At least that's
> what I read on the Internet.
>
> Myth or fact? Only you can decide. I'm going back to nonduality for a
> nap.
>
>
>
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