To: K-list
Recieved: 2004/08/23 20:57
Subject: [K-list] Re: truth
From: Stephen Kowalchuk
On 2004/08/23 20:57, Stephen Kowalchuk posted thus to the K-list:
At 12:01 PM 8/23/2004, K-list-requestATkundalini-gateway.org wrote:
>From: prahalad purple <purpladATyahoo.com>
>Subject: [K-list] some answers
>To: K-listATkundalini-gateway.org
>
>The truth is for everyone, there should not be pockets of secrets like this
*yawn* There is no such thing as truth, in this context. The Truth, if
there is such a thing, is only in what is, and accepting what is. All else
is Maya.
>very short sighted.. it will be used by someone to to achieve material
>ends, or satisfying gross ego with dangerous consequences. which is anti
>thesis to spiritual integrity
Materialism and science are attempts by the physical self to map a phyiscal
space. Consequently, they are ego-based and fraught with dead ends,
illusions, and false assumptions. The reason for this is obvious --
physicality is not a closed system, but rather a 4-dimensional
representation of higher-order phenomena.
For instance, one's shadow is similar to oneself, it represents oneself in
a way, but it clearly is not oneself in entirety. Further, the shadow, as
it goes through its trials and changes and eventual disappearance when the
sun goes down, is affected by the person or object, but the person or
object is not necessarily affected by the shadow.
>Todays Science is an infant and dwarfed system, emphasizing study with the
>senses about material and that which relates to matter, motivated by
>curiosity of the senses and satisfaction of the gross ego.
Agreed. It is a flawed system doomed to continue producing results that
have the appearance of Truth (a concept which we postulate exists but we
cannot prove it), but only within a narrow frame of reference.
Such is the way of fundamentalism. No human version of the Truth is better
than any other version. They are all flawed.
>But this petty little knowldege has been misused and abused with very
>disastrous consequence .
>
>The sciences of virat and brahmand, each of them of completely different
>realms, are with unmentionable power to effect change.
>
>just this material wealth how men tend to abuse it .. what would happen if
>real wealth is given to them ..
>
>...........christ said so.
Oh, christ said so.
The abuses of the wealthy are only abusive because they perpetuate the
illusion that one state is better than another. Your concept of "real"
(presumably a spiritual wealth unrelated to materialism...some greater
concept that you would call "Truth") is not significantly different from
theirs.
>well some philosophy is better than no philosophy eh...? but no philosophy
>is better than nonsense !!
>
>About the Indian Caste system.. How over poilitisized it is...
I share your opinion that the Caste is an outdated model for a
civilization. I must admit, however, I am amazed with its genius. It is
structurally quite sound, and well-codified, and on a gross scale quite
rational and in many ways very efficient. However, I also would not want
in any way to be born into it.
According to Marx, within any civilization are the seeds to its
destruction. Simultaneous to the tendency of society to refine many
versions of "truth" or "reality" into one or a few (called a "social
reality" by Searle), there is also a tendency of individuals to harbor
individual realities and truths and experiences that are quite diverse and
different from the social reality. One might consider the right to define
and validate one's own individual reality to be inalienable, similar to the
US Constitution's "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Clearly, we
draw the line at actions which infringe on others' rights to do the same
(which sets an applicable frame of reference), but the basic premise holds
that individual freedom of thought and expression is essential to human
happiness.
It was precisely because this "right" was stifled in the Caste system that
it fell. Being so tightly structured and rigorous, it was practically
impossible in such a system to exercise freedom of thought or
expression. Lower castes received the most oppressive
treatment. Eventually, civil war would be inevitable. To its credit,
India avoided such a fate (unlike many of its European counterparts) and
though the Caste persists in many forms its grip on mainstream Indian
culture has lessened.
>But as for now I am done with this list, that is being merely used to make
>money, to find potential innocents .... balanced with diplomatic comments
>that pacify, placate and pander.. As a 25 year old grad student in
>Aerospace Engg, in my graduating semester, I consider myself more
>gainefully emloyed, than to waste any more of my time squabbling with the
>egoistic, and being manipulated by devious spiritual quacks, whose
>objective is not truth for all but, $$ for self !! and that too with the
>exploitation of these innocents, with this website being a means.. The
>innocent, sensitive and serious seekers, who I see in the list, I convey
>my deep hearted regards to you and my opinion that single minded
>desperation to the goal will only and surely get you to it, I am but just
>another one of you.
There are some people on list trolling for followers, and other trolling
for leaders. In any open forum, there are by necessity people of all
orientations. This is not a school for any one expression of divinity, but
a place where all expressions can find some room to coexist.
If something particularly bothers you about the list, I suggest you look
inward and discover what it is about the offending orientation that
provokes such a reaction. I have found this to be very, very enlightening
for myself.
Food for thought.
Steve
PS - A duck's quack does not echo, and no one knows why. At least that's
what I read on the Internet.
Myth or fact? Only you can decide. I'm going back to nonduality for a nap.
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