To: K-list
Recieved: 2004/05/14 04:48
Subject: Re: [K-list] K - desirelessness & ego loss
From: Doug Fraser
On 2004/05/14 04:48, Doug Fraser posted thus to the K-list:
At 06:37 PM 5/13/04 -0700, Brian Chase wrote:
>Dear List,
>
>Mystress claims that K leads naturally to ego loss. I
>think it leads to lots of philosophical and spiritual
>exploration and yoga stuff - possibly dizziness and
>ecstasy.
>
>I would like to hear from anyone that had this ego
>loss happen. I'm not sure I buy into it.
>
>It implies:
>1) ego is bad
>2) K can squish your ego
>3) hence K will make you a better, ego-less person
there is a concept / theory in transpersonal psychology known as the
"pre-trans fallacy".
Look up Ken Wilber for a better description, but my (however incomplete)
summary would
be that the standard psychoanalytical theory that mystical states are
regressions of the
ego to infantile states (implying having a strong ego is the penultimate
ideal of being human)
is wrong - it ignores the positive benefits and etc mystical states can
have (but that's
science for you) This is the "pre" side.
The trans side is the assumptions that ALL non ordinary states are
desirable ones. This
is not the case either - some people's non ordinary states are regressions
that seem to
serve as a way of achieving lower chakra desires or relieving repressed
psychological energy
etc - to come up with a metaphor, it's like the psychological software is
doing a pre-boot
test to diagnose and fix low levels errors (a booted state is your normal
ego). And real
transcendence is a software upgrade
How does this tie to your question? Well, it takes a strong, healthy ego
to properly
be able to transcend itself - transcend, not lose. Losing one's ego
implies a descent into
the lower chakra levels, etc - no ego to temper one's id or handle the
superego (all those
street corner preachers shouting about sinners have lost control of their
superego)
I would say I've transcended my ego - not lost my sense of who I am or
where - but at
those times, the psychological boundaries between "me" and "Other" are
blurred -
the "Unity Consciousness" experience
(except once, but that was high dose LSD, and amnesia is typical - I
remember bits and
pieces, and I was into some serious Jesus like head space. One guy later
said he was
slightly envious - think truly "being here now, in the moment, at all times")
K, I would say, is a mechanism that massages or transforms or acts as a
catalyst for
modifying the ego - so (properly done, all the right yoga, etc) the ego
actually is strengthened
- in the right manner - so that transcendence is easier, more likely, and
less harrowing
(and you don't need drugs....)
doug
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