To: K-list
Recieved: 2004/01/17 21:05
Subject: [kundalini_p] Re: Applied and Sustained Concentration Lead to E
From: Macdocaz1
On 2004/01/17 21:05, Macdocaz1 posted thus to the K-list:
Hello Guy (Rainbow Spirit), please see my comments below:
In a message dated 1/16/04 12:45:13 PM, guy3rd1950ATyahoo.com writes:
<< Dear Jeff,
I am not writing about emptiness. I do not mean that the
intellect shall exist in nothingness, but rather that the mind thinks
and evaluates in an important way in the daily functions of life.
The intellect, in my world, is Not the guiding force, nor the judge
of all that comes. Intellect can be a passive observer of Self: it
can be involved in a deep capacity Without words, or in a superficial
capacity With words. Humans invented language. Humans created the
philosophical and linguistic concepts to understand and communicate
with each other. >>
%%%%%%% Jeff:
I agree.
%%%%%%%
<< Guy (Rainbow Spirit):
Are you comparing the knowledge of the Creator, and
the energy that unites all, with this insignificant development? >>
%%%%%%% Jeff:
No
%%%%%%%
<< Guy (Rainbow Spirit):
Language is a slow, cumbersome mechanical way of using thought, and
it confines thought by the limits of definition. Constant personal
interpetation from each reader or listener can lead to
misunderstanding and therefore lack of deep engagement
(read:separateness). This separating dynamic is crucial to
understanding the limitations therein. The greatest fallibility of
intellect as leader is that nothing exists beyond experience, and all
experiences are interpreted by the intellect. The intellect is
defined by experiences, or what has come before, alone. One can
describe the view from the mountain top, but one cannot Experience
(read FEEL) the view, the power, the enormity, without BEING there.
Speech and the written word are thought symbols, but thought is not
confined to speech and the written word. >>
%%%%%%% Jeff:
Yes, nor is experience confined by thought or communication symbols. And, we
need not be limited by the intellects desire to interpret experience.
%%%%%%%
<< Guy (Rainbow Spirit):
I am unimpressed by your lineage or your masters if they have not
shared this truth with you. Perhaps you should ask them about it. I
suggest that you experiment with thinking and being without words;
allow your capacity of thought to expand into God consciousness
instead of maintaining your rigid definitions and beliefs. The
structure you have so carefully created stands in the way of your
ability to simply allow. >>
%%%%%%% Jeff:
I am at a loss of how you have come to this conclusion. It seems that you
are enmeshed in projection, because I am not enmeshed in thinking or words. I
abide in silence 24/7. I use the cognitive processes for what they are good
for, memory, reasoning and communication, as you have said. When they are not
engages, then I am in silence.
I do not find any need to respond to the rest of your message because it
seems that your intellect has tripped you out into fantasy land, because non of
what you say applies to me. You may wish to take some of your own advice and
explore emptiness a little deeper. I am quite certain if you engaged in a
meditation practice you will find that the "emptiness" that you beleive you have
found is only on the surface.
You may be surprised to know that only a few of the present generation of
Western nondualists, who appear to be greatly misguided, reject meditation
practice. Shankara Chara, the progenitor of the tradition of Advaita Vedanta had a
rigorous contemplative practice, as did Sri Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Ramana
Maharshi, Amar Jyoti, and myself. So, far you have only provided yourself as a
nondualist who does not practice meditation, and I am sorry to have to say,
so far your dialog here does not reflect well upon your "method."
Best regard,
Jeff Brooks
%%%%%%%
<< Guy (Rainbow Spirit):
There isn't a word in any language that is knowledge... there are
only symbols of verbal concepts of knowledge. Only in silence may
the mind become free to unite with the Creator. The noise of the
verbal mind, the trying to define, stands between you and the
experiential knowledge of the Creator. In nothingness, you silence
self. In utter verbal stillness you experience Creator and the
pleasure of divine love.
For you, the fully-engaged verbal, intellectual understanding and
seeking of Divine Knowledge of Creator is a fine concept, and one
with which the brain loves to toy. There is no death in thinking and
allowing the intellect its rule and reign of power over your
boundaries and sense of self.
This is not about a belief or a faith, as these are the very defined
thinking patterns that limit the mind and prevent being. It takes
time and awareness to exist and function in the physical world
without words. Feeling and responding without being drawn into
internal verbal dialogue is a practice not often taught. You
apparently did not have any way of relating to what was meant when I
said, "I design and build ships, complete with all their functional
systems, without words or paper. With an uncluttered mind, I am able
to design the lines or shape of the vessel, see how it will move in
the water and visualize its stability; work out the fits for all the
joints and the cuts for the timber and keel; turn the vessel over in
my mind's eye to look at it from every direction; design the
interior cabinetry, visualize how the electrical system is to be run
and the plumbing, hydrolics, navigation electronics, sails, rigging
and main propulsion need to interact." My intellect is expanded by
its freedom from words. It has a job, but lays behind the source of
energy which allows the huge, big picture to flow through me. I am
unable to talk during this process. To do so puts the intellect in
the way, and interrupts the flow.
My designing and carpentry flow in silence, but certainly not
nothingness, as you seem to imagine. I wrote few words and you wrote
many. You chose to pick out the words that fit your intellectual
capacity to understand, and you then catogorized them through your
own experiences. I may have been mistaken that after so many years
of meditation you might want to learn a way of knowledge without
limitations of rigid practice. Trying, striving, seeking, in and of
themselves, can abruptly halt one's ability to BE.
you wrote: manifestations of kundalini that the people on this list
are having are only a
foreshadow of, but emptiness is just the entry point for the first
absorption
(jhana). However, one with a nondualist view alone, has not yet
gotten to absorption
(jhana), nor will one, without meditation. There are eight
absorptions
(Jhanas) beyond emptiness,
but I do not believe one will get to them without a
contemplative practice regimen.
And I reply to the final part of that sentence, your belief is your
own (and not original), and is reflective of your experience. As it
should be, and will be, until you are free to explore beyond the
rigid structure of a practice which is meant to develop skills, but
which brings few to the all abiding Light they seek.
I agree that to learn to meditate, and to do so as a practice is very
beneficial. However, I am truly sorry that you are confined by
intellectual beliefs which proclaim that these are an end in and of
themselves. These paths share patterns which historically proved
profound. Yet, each person who is limited by their teacher will
never move beyond. And where is the growth and evolution in simply
mimicry? When a carpenter cuts a pattern out of wood, and the
original pattern has a flaw, every piece thereafter will have the
same flaw, and through repetitive usage, other flaws. Each
successive master is limited by his prior master, and lends his own
misinterpretation as his life experiences dictate. For who is any
one person to tell another what their path shall be. If All resides
within and without, we must each carry the whole truth on our own,
and any attempt to fit our path with another's can only limit who we,
as individuals, with our own unique set of life experiences, may move
through. We are all, and yet our path is in solitude.
I simply share a way of divine knowing. You offer a prison for me
to lock myself in. The confinement of your practice and role as
student/teacher allows you comfort. You may disregard all I have
written if your intellect cannot allow you to hear that which comes
from another way. There are many paths. If these words offend you,
then you define your prison by that offense. I am glad you feel
safe. If you believe the world is flat then you will never travel
near the edge. To stay in the house built by your intellect,
however, leaves you spinning just beneath the glorious exploration of
loving chaotic allowing feminine being. The rest of the world is mine
for I am she, we have no defined borders. And She refuses to be
defined by simple words.
namaste,
Guy
Rainbow Spirit
macdocaz1ATaol.com wrote:
Hello Rainbow Spirit, I am sorry you believe that I have purely an
intellectual approach, because I am a contemplative. I meditate 4 or
5 hours a day.
So, I am not an intellectual at all. I have found it is this rigorous
contemplative practice regimen that has brought me safe thus far
through the long dark
night of the soul to a pleasant abiding in the here and now. And,
thankfully
I enjoy the silence of what you call samadhi or no mind. >>
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.