To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/10/14 02:56
Subject: RE: [K-list] Fear for Kali
From: Rich
On 2003/10/14 02:56, Rich posted thus to the K-list:
Thank you for your reply.
It was at night after where I had a memorable dream. Like I was levitating.
The energy was the source of feeling 'light' bodied. Only one thing stayed
in mind after awakening sharply. Kali.
It was enough for me after waking at something like 3am to get up and make
note twice. I'd heard the name before but never absorbed it.
Although I was looking and attention tuned to noticing this aspect,
something caught me as I looked over the search results.
The top hit when I googled 'kali goddess' was the following:
Kali, Goddess of Fear
'Kali, Goddess of Fear. I am the dance of death that is. behind all
life. the ultimate horror. the ultimate ecstasy. I am existence....'
I didn't think there was much road in continuing this discussion to be
truthful and what I reply with now is chopped and changed from old and new.
Strangely each time I thought there was no more in this, something came
about that made me look further and come back to it. Last time it was the
passion fruit seed
(http://www.pwbelg.clara.net/seeds/Seedpics/tn_Passiflora_edulis_fruit_jpg.j
pg) - not the best picture but to answer your curiosity it's the bits in the
middle. The usually hard to bite because they are slippery. I don't
recommend inhaling them.
'She is Smyama Kali, the Dark One who dispels fear' - Merlin Stone,
Ancient Mirrors of Womanhood
My knowledge is Kali being all things. Being of destruction and death.
Darkness lived.
Strangely I find a reassurance in this. That death is life in it's own shape
and form. There isn't so greater difference other than that we are here and
less conscious to there. It's a place of its own, woven into existence as is
the light. Now I think of fear as being dispersed and light as centred.
Nothing to be feared (i.e. running away from), only to be experienced.
> I think there is a big difference. I am so used to see it from my
> perspective that I couldn´t understand it. Now I think I can. Usually
> "fear"
> is sinonomous of "ignorance, irrational". So when someone is influenced
> by
> his fears or carried by his fears he is influenced/carried by ignorance.
Is ignorance and irrationality the same? I lost the logic. Perhaps this is
the point. Irrationality follows its own logic. Ignorance is sometimes born
out of lack of willingness to see truth.
> Here is where I desagree. I see fear just as another part of
> yourselve who tries to help you. That´s all.
Yes and no. Helping and hindering depending on the situation.
> This idea came clear to my mind reading a book. It was about a
> group
> of white wolves who magically induced fear on their victims, they freeze
> them and later killed them. Until Jhon Stark came. :). He had been
> educated
> by a primitive tribe and had developed a natural relation with fear. Fear
> had been his ally whenever he had to go to caves and hunt dangerous
> animals.
> Whenever he was at a border situation he used to feel all his body full in
> fear helping him as all his instintcs sharpened to the top. When he
> encountered this wolves fear doesn´t have effect on him, because fear is
> his
> ally, he doesn´t make any resistance to it, it just flows through and over
> him. He kill the king of the wolves. One of his thoughts is "The end of
> fear
> is dead".
You see fear as an informative thing.
> For example. "Someone sees a lot of TV. And when he goes out to the
> street he is scared verytime he sees someone with strange look. One day,
> one
> of this guys ask him the hour. He look at him tembling and tell him the
> hour."
>
> This person could be said that "was influenced by his fears". His
> fears made him see "another reality". A reality where this guy was
> dangerous
> where he wasn´t. So it could be said that he was erroneous. But in fact
> that
> is not the truth. The truth is that he sees a lot of TV and have growth a
> great quantity of fear. But why? Because he is always seeing all kind of
> awful things and he logically conclude that the world is a dangerous
> place.
The TV instils fear. It did for me too when I saw nuclear bombs going off
and someone talking about destruction of thousands of people in various
different unpleasant means. That was when I was about 13. Made me scared of
every plane going over head which wasn't much fun when my home was close to
one of British Aerospace's factories.
But this fear is different, this can be re-framed. It is imaginary fear.
The fear I had interest of is one which is threaded through my body and
unrelenting. That said my relationship to fear had changed surprisingly
since we have had this discussion. I've been buzzing like an electrical
pylon over these last 3 weeks and its like fear doesn't exist.
> Here the problem is not his fear but that his is "deluded" by the
> information he has got.
His ignorance enabled this to happen.
> He has made his mind with the information he have at hand. If all
> your friends tell you that the streets are full of cold head hunters who
> are
> just waiting for you. Would you go out to the street full of tranquility?
> Would you try to fight the fear that comes whenever you go outside or will
> you respectfully listen to it and won´t go outside until you are just
> starving?
Like telling ghost stories. LOL.
It's imagined and born in ignorance. Beneath this there is the deeper fear,
often death. In my perspective it is held Trauma that keeps the body fears
on simmer ready for instant-replay.
> *Caring about fears
> *My take on this is a little different. I like to deal with things. My
> fear
> *is something to be overcome. I don't care much about anxiety but panic is
> *something I wish to find a better behaviour towards. Going crazy is not
> me.
> *A clear detached response seems preferable. Sometimes it can be like this
> *and other times I am overcome by the fear. That is when it is hard, to
> *re-center, re-ground and surrender. I am going into resistance.
>
> The idea is always the same. Fear is an ally. We have been told
> to
> fight it, that is bad. That´s false. That´s precesly why he is not working
> as it should because it has been fighted along the years and has become
> stucked.
This is part of it. But sometimes to let the fear have its way would mean to
go crazy. Like shaking and rolling around on the floor and yelping like a
dog kicked up the hind. Trying to uncoil a tightened spring absorbed in
kinetic energy whilst behaving acceptable. It's not an easy feat.
Maybe now this is all pointless. Elargonauto, it seems like you do not have
this effect from fear. Perhaps sidestepping it or breathing through it or
something I don't know. Some insight has told me there is a different view
of this nature. 'It's just fear, so what!' mentality.
I guess there are two sides. Clear the fear/trauma and have no response or
notice the response but don't intervene.
>
> *For example, I have found sometimes when I have to talk in front of an
> *audience and my energy is depleted and maybe I have many things on my
> mind
> *then my body shakes and trembles. I want to run away and not exist. This
> is
> *my body reacting. Even when I acknowledge it and breath deeply from navel
> *and empty my thoughts, it still doesn't go away.
>
> *Strangely, sometimes once I get started with any kind of speech or
> *discussion often my fear vanishes and it's not unusual for me to fully
> enjoy
> *the experience.
>
>
> Speaking to a lot of people produce insecurity, no? You have to
> face a lot of people etc .. Your body tells you to be cautious, to don´t
> do
> it until you have a good reason to ... later on you enjoy the experience,
> but there are certain risks in speaking in public.
Yeah... but what I was saying is SOMETIMES. It's not consistent. Lately I've
been feeling I could take on the World. Too many amazing synchronicities.
Trying to surrender all this and act like nothing happened seems ridiculous
but I know if I don't I'll loose the flow. It's weird to notice the more
empty I am, the more everything around me comes about quicker to accomplish
what is in my will.
I'll share a little story.. I'd had this box in my room for watching TV on a
computer monitor, sat there doing nothing for the last two months or so.
Never used it because it didn't work with the type of monitor I have and
also because I didn't think I had an external antennae socket for it. A day
later after selling it to someone I realised I found an aerial socket. Duh!
>
> Anyway there are certain things you don´t want to do and you have
> to do them. You do them. The problem is when you are no boligated to do
> them
> and you do it the same ... masochism? or conquering your fears? I think it
> is masoquism.
>
> As Chuang Tze said "easy is right".
>
Right is easy ;)
>
> > For example, this person has been a POW and have remained three years
> > underground. Now, he feel sick and vulnerable at open space. Everytime
> he
> > thinks about going to open space he feel uneasy He has fear of something
> > of
> > wich he shouldn´t but there is a reason for it. His body is not "liying
> > him", his body and feelings are perfectly allright. They just advice him
> > not
> > to do something that "makes him feel bad". His body is telling him to
> not
> > go
> > to open space becouse he is going to "feel sick".
>
> *If his body is sick and he thinks this is fine then this is fine for him.
> If
> *his body reacts and he resists to this then it may not be fine for him.
>
> I think it is clear it is not allright to him. He would like to
> swim
> free of fear with the other children. But he has this fear deep inside of
> him.
>
> *If he thinks he cannot undo his craziness then this way it will be for
> him.
> *But what if he has belief in the idea he can clear this scar?
>
> I agree that 99.9% of the system umbalance of people can be
> cleared.
> As I have experienced the homeostasis of the body is incredible. The
> problem
> is that we think that some parts of ourselves are "bad" and have to be
> represed and that is the fastest way to stuck any growth fear.
Yeah... But sometimes these things are so far buried, it takes a pneumatic
drill and an ocean of TLC to get the critters off.
Needless to say I think we are just going in circles on this now.
>
> > So, the problem is not his feelings or the fear. The problem is
> that
> > he
> > has been three years underground and it will take him a long time till
> he
> > get used to open space.
>
> *What I don't follow is are you saying 'time' is the only thing which will
> *allow this person to get used to open spaces? This would be subjective,
> for
> *what does 'get used to' mean?
>
> From time to time I think it is a good idea to have a look to a
> book of "Biology". There you take a grasp to how absolutely complex and
> perfect is the human body. Every cell of the human body is making
> thousands
> of reactions per second! Every cell! The genes are copied trillions of
> times
> and without errors!
Should sell the concept to Levi's :)
> So it´s not waiting alone, is waiting for a machine far more
> complex than any military device ends his work of resolving and clear that
> umbalance. That is the real meaning of being yourselve, being completely
> backed by this military inteligence. :).
>
> If this person behaves naturally he will remain under cover
> until
> he start feeling secure about going outside. That´s all.
What if he takes an umbrella outside with him?
>
> > This is what I was speaking about. I admit there can be some
> people
> > where the fears have no reason. But I think 99.9% of them can be
> explained
> > knowing about the life of this person.
>
> *Do you know how your particular fears came into play? I find fear complex
> in
> *the way I try to understand a tree with as many branches.
>
> Yep.
>
> a) fear of tension and disrupting sensations -- I didn´t
> understood why I suffered from increased and increased disruptive
> sensations
> b) fear of fear -- I was scared of the growing feelings
> of
> fear.
> (This is secondary anyway, because It wouldn´t have existed
> without the first one)
>
> And this fear doesn´t stop until you understand this two
> things ...
>
> a) tension and disruptive feelings come when you
> "struggle" with life insted "let go" with the flow.
> b) fear is your ally and is doing all that he can to
> help
> you.
> ( By the way it can be aplied to all your feelings
> and
> organ, they just do all that they can to help the whole).
Yeah... but fear doesn't give me information that helps me. Think of a time
you were living free of fear and blissed out and knew about everything
around and what action to take. Then another time where you feeling paranoid
and confused and scared of things around you.
>
> Yep. I has helped me too to start making the final peace with
> myself. As ingnorance fades away I can again feel confident about me and
> my
> body and my feelings. :). To become friends again.
Great :)
> I don´t understand this. What is a "passion fruit seed"?
See above.
Hope you don't mind the humour... Got tired of taking this seriously.
Rich
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