To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/10/10 05:25
Subject: RE: [K-list] beliefs
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
On 2003/10/10 05:25, Mystress Angelique Serpent posted thus to the K-list:
At 07:29 AM 04/10/03, Goran Starcevic wrote:
>For someone interested in E's consistency or for someone who
>doesn't relativize logic as irrelevant.
Why does E need to be consistent? Few are...
>But it may be irrelevant on this list in which everyone is clear
>with low level stuff in case of which my "pragmatic" statement
>is rendered annoying and I'm obviously directing my energy in a
>wrong way.
I think, it is your approach.
> > We are clear, but it is irrelevant.
>
>Maybe I've gotten a wrong impression due to my own garbage. Who am I to
>know what is clear and what is not!? I have started delousing my self.
>I apologize E, for using you for my own shitty ego-trip.
heh.
> > You cannot sort out a Zen koan with logic no matter what you do
It isn't exactly... but his message of going with the flow and not
attempting to repress or suppress his fear is Zen, and the ideas are not
unrelated.
>Most of the people here are surrendered to divine will?! What a blessing
>to the world!
>
>:)
The majority of members are awakened, and surrender is the imperative
of Kundalini. They may not be fully surrendered yet, but likely it is their
focus... though they may communicate it in different words.
>That is one thing. Completely other is inducing general truths
>like "If you don't enjoy the trip, you are going nowhere." from
>limited 'zen'? insights. A lot of people in history showed
>similar tendencies which were later proven not to be right.
Hmm... would you be specific in your examples?
Most people are successful if there is enjoyment in what they are
doing. "Do what you love, the money will follow." Without some reward, the
motive fades, the quality of the work suffers.
Bearing in mind that masochists enjoy suffering... enjoyment is
subjective and often hidden in the minutiae, but apparent in the big
picture. A mother may not enjoy changing diapers, but hopefully it is part
of a larger goal which is fulfilling, and the focus on the larger goal
creates some enjoyment in the minutiae that is unenjoyable.
Ditto for Jesus, presumably.
> > The basic essence of this argument is that Elargonauto trusts his
> > gut instincts and you do not.
>
>The later is pretty much true. But I would rather define the
>essence as questioning 'justifying' from a higher chakra
>perspective of something seen as absurd from a lower chakra
>perspective.
I think you wrote that backwards? It is usually the ego that seeks
justification, the Zen mind just acts. The purpose may become apparent
later, it may be known without needing to think or justify, or it may never
be known. We cannot see all the ripples.
Your wanting E to justify his opinions is odd, and it is not about him,
it is about your wanting. It is what people do, projecting their issues
onto someone who triggers them. Someone else wants me to justify my
opinions on what makes a Shaman... while making it clear that they think
their own opinions are superior, and seeking popular support for
themselves. Its a similar game, their game, and it not about me...
transparently so, in that I am spoken of in the third person ("she") as if
I am not here to speak to, directly.
It has no relevance to me, except to mention it as an example of how
demanding justification in the guise of pretending to be seeking
understanding, can be a kind of interrogator game played by the ego issues
of the third chakra.
>Think of every second lunatic (being or not, independent of
>the definition) in a mental institution saying he is 'Mother
>Earth', God himself, Jesus Christ or whatever -
>that may very well be true in reality other than physical, but
>what is the use of saying that other than wanting to be put in
>a mental institution from people not aware of the higher truth?
In your judgment, the experience of being enlightened and
institutionalized is inferior to the experience of being unenlightened and
"free." I'm not sure you can really make that value judgment unless you
have experienced both.
>You can't say things like that in a physical plane and expect
>the majority of people to understand you.
Ah, expectations... I do not expect the majority of people to
understand me. I feel fortunate if a few people get some idea. I cannot
control what other people understand, and having expectations about it
would just lead to disappointment.
>I don't understand
>the need for saying higher truth things without point (like:
>'perfection is', 'love and light', etc.) over and over? Where
>does it get you?
It is a reminder to oneself, that perception and results are
chosen. Reminding each other, is part of Satsangh, spiritual company. I'm
sure you have beliefs that you remind yourself of, especially if you are
trying to manifest a shift of consciousness or perception. It is as mundane
and universal as the corporate trendy buzzwords of a Dilbert cartoon. heh.
> That is an evolutionary process.
> > Arguing for
> > your logical perspectives is not likely to help you evolve in the area
> > of Kundalini,
>
>Just like above. Or am I wrong?
What? ;) You are expecting me to understand you, heh. What part of
above? Please clarify.
>Thanks for the advice :)
heh. Yer funny.
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