To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/09/27 19:59
Subject: RE: [K-list] Philosophical question
From: Goran Starcevic
On 2003/09/27 19:59, Goran Starcevic posted thus to the K-list:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: K-list-bounces AT_NOSPAM kundalini-gateway.org
> [mailto:K-list-bounces AT_NOSPAM kundalini-gateway.org] On Behalf Of Mystress
> Angelique Serpent
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 7:50 PM
> To: k-list AT_NOSPAM kundalini-gateway.org
> Subject: Re: [K-list] Philosophical question
> > > Nope. You haven´t got the idea. I´m telling that if you
> > > live for achive things instead for enjoying it, you are
> losing the
> > > point.
> >
> >So Jesus either totaly lost the point when he gave himself
> on the cross
> >or he did enjoy it very much. LOL
>
> Goran, it appears that you are arguing for the sake of arguing,
I wouldn't agree it is so one-dimensional. For example, just look
at the above statement derived from Elargonauto's logic. No one on
this list seems to have any trouble with it -what does that tell
you?
I'd say it's a very interesting indication at least and you and
Elargonauto call it 'going in circles' and 'going nowhere' -somehow
it seems to me that either the both of you are not interested in
going closer towards the truth or you haven't understand the
discussion and are concluding based on that.
> rather
> than trying to understand Elargonauto or express your own position
> clearly.
If you define not trying to understand Elargonauto as spending hours
talking to him towards ultimate understanding of not only his
statements but all their depth and consequences that follow out of
them and trying to understand him as blindly accepting his internal
logic in order to accept his claims then, indeed, I wasn't trying to
understand him.
My position in this whole story on the level so extremely low as this
is irrelevant -don't you think?
> Obviously you are enjoying it. What are you trying
> to achieve?
It isn't that I've come here to achieve something in particular.
I've come to get the feeling for/of this list, amuse myself,
test myself, maybe understand/hear the 'truth' of the others and
myself on this list and maybe I needed attention of this form
-and it turns out I'm wearing Elargonauto (and you?) all the way
to sleep :)
:(
> >Let me rephrase the question once again, LOL: "If the
> direction of your
> >mind (which doesn't need to be commissioned by the power of
> anything and
> >do it's duty as best as it can) commissioned by the power of your own
> >will is bringing you to the place of your choosing how can
> you call it
> >'serious limitation of freedom'?!
>
> The mind of a Zen Master is silent, yet the actions of the Master
> occur naturally, in perfection. No thinking or choosing required...
> no mental
> effort.
> The part of the mind that has to think and choose, is
> ego... inferior to
> the larger, cosmic mind that simply *knows.* Much of the
> "thinking" of the
> average mind is simply karmic clutter, old programming on rewind. The
> process of Kundalini clears out the clutter to get to the
> unified, silent
> place of Mastery... yet, it is not ego that masters, ego must
> surrender.
It seems you are suggesting that the freedom of ego driven mind or
free will is an illusion whereas the mind 'without' ego (consciousness
of your own identity?) is truly free.
Isn't the only difference between ego-free mind and ego-mind the absence
of the qualities of ego?
If so, the qualities of ego give you the freedom of choice, freedom
to do whatever you want in contrast to the ego-free mind which seems to
be completely transparent and in synchronicity with the 'cosmic mind',
or whatever it is you speak of and as such it has no freedom -it is but
a mirror, reflection, it is completely devoted to the 'higher mind'.
That is not what Elargonauto is saying because he finds it imperative
to not have a limitation of freedom, unless of course he thought of
freedom as being completely devoted to something higher than yourself
(which he will probably say now) ;>
Just kidding, E. :) LOL
If not, what makes the ego-free mind considered free?
> Trying to repress the ego noise is effort, and does not lead to
> release. Allowing, surrendering is more effective. Focusing on the
> body feelings instead of the mind chatter, is also effective... so
> long as there
> is not also a lot of effort to control the feelings.
Why would anyone want to loose the consciousness (or illusion?) of his
own identity (ego), besides wanting to see past the illusion of it?
> NLP is excellent for doing this.
What is NLP?
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