To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/08/19 05:21
Subject: Re: [K-list] Sharing (was Meditation)
From: Julie D
On 2003/08/19 05:21, Julie D posted thus to the K-list:
Hi Hillary & List,
>>>It's always interesting what catches here and what doesn't. :)) It's
usually a question of timing rather than the question itself--and the timing
is a mystery! <<<
I've noticed the mystery of it too. Too be in step with the time seems to
be an important aspect of dancing with the universe. I guess I missed a
beat or two. :))
(snip)
>>>It seems that those with autism and schizophrenia have a similar
breakdown--it's as though the brain filtering mechanism malfunctions. (or
one could say they function at an optimum level! that it's the "ego" that
just can't handle it! :)) )
"But in the case of schizophrenia, the screens fail to do their job
properly. They are to a greater or lesser extent disabled and allow too much
data through into consciousness."
from: http://www.ahiddenplace.co.uk/twindatastream/scibytes.htm <<<
(snip)
I really enjoyed this reference.
(from the above article)
***"Perhaps if things had not gone the way they did, if I had not been able
to prove my hypothesis, I would be bitter. But it left me with a conviction
that there's something wrong with science. So much information is available
nowadays that to make any forward progress you are forced to specialise and
any attempt at an overview is deemed impossible, and scorned. Whereas I've
always searched for correspondences. My real sadness is for the thousands of
young people who are crushed by scientific orthodoxies before they even get
a chance to advance their own ideas."
I fear that I am not as large-spirited as Thor. My chief distress is not for
the young people but for a particular person of advanced years, myself, who
finds himself in danger of being "crushed by scientific orthodoxies". I
refer to my Twin-data-Stream theory which is being effectively suppressed by
the procedural dogmas of modern science. ***
I share these concerns.
The problem as I see it is that there is two types of schitzophrenia, and
they are being treated by science as the same thing. From what I understand
of the twin streams theory that you refered to is that their is two types of
consciousness operating within us and only one of them is under the
conscious control of the personality. My personal experience and research
supports this theory as does much of what I have read on this list. At some
point one side of the mind attempts to make contact with the other side.
Taking up a spiritual practice is really an attempt of the personality to
contact their unconscious aspect. If the unconscious contents initiates the
contact then this is experienced as a flood of unconscious material entering
consciousness and overwhelming the personality. The question then becomes
will the ego with it's boundaries and limitations get washed away by this
flood or will it learn how to swim. A strong healthy ego will ultimately be
able to navigate the tides and become the intermediary between the interior
and exterior worlds. The ego that gets washed away and is in danger of
drowning in the inchoate material needs to have its boundaries strengthened
in order not to drown.
Before I go further I better clarify what I mean by ego, as I am using it as
psychologists use it. There seems to be a huge variety of definitions of
this word. In this definition the ego is seen as the centre of consciousness
in the individual, while the Self or self system is seen as the centre and
co-ordinator of both conscious and unconscious process.
When I talk about the ego I am *not* talking about an exclusive
identification with the body/mind. This identification is largely
deconstructed with the emergence of the supreme identity of the divine self.
This is what mysticism refers to when ego death is spoken of. Rather, I am
talking about the aspect of self awareness that develops to deal with the
gross conventional world and it's sensorimotor reality. This is the part of
you that knows how to write, drive and which fork to use, etc. It is a
functional competence.
Even the greatest sages need to eat and drink in order to remain embodied.
This aspect remains through all of the stages of human development.
Julie wrote,
>I don't think we are in control either. I do think that we can co-operate
>with the process or fight with it though. There is a lot of psychological
>writing that compares states of schizophrenia with mystical states.
>>>Yes! There seems to be a somewhat thin line. It's been said, though, as
your quote from Graf also indicates, that K-ites who find themselves in
mental hospitals can tell the difference between those who are mad and those
who are mystics! Perhaps it's simply one of degree-- we k-ites usually can
retain some sense of remaining grounded--or perhaps it's how we interpret
our "symptoms." Or, as you say, whether we fight or surrender to it all.
Many, if not most of k active people on the list have felt at one time or
another that they might be going mad--myself included. In my case I simply
didn't care! :))<<<
:)) Were you urged to get help?
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org/polls/po_mad.html
>>>Well, there are those who did just that and ended up in mental hospitals.
Usually, fortunately, their stay has been short-lived. However, that said,
I think it wise to be careful in how much or to whom we reveal our
experiences. The medical establishment is not educated enough yet on
mystical experiences vs schizophrenia.<<<
And that's my gripe I guess! The problem here is that often K-ites often
come out on anti-psychotic medication and with a label that limits their
ability to move freely in the world! The medication itself can produce a
whole lot of problems. This has happened to at least two people that I care
about personally. The idea of the medication is to stop the process and
that's what it does more or less does... and if it's less attempts will be
made
to make it more. The process isn't allowed to complete and swimming isn't
taught. In India when a person displays these symptoms they would be taken
to the local ashram and personally cared for by competent swimmers. The
work of Francis Perry-Weir shows what is possible when this sort of personal
care is provided in Western Society. It's more inconvenient and costly
though.
Julie wrote
>For me, Kundalini awakening was an incredible shock. <snip>, it
>only took about two weeks before I was using every means that I could think
>of to control it and stop it. I had very grave fears for my sanity
>>>Yeah! that's what causes most of the problems with K--fear and the
resulting desire to fight it! In this culture madness/mysticism is treated
with such fear and contempt--unlike in some other cultures where
shamen/mystics are accepted and honored.<<<
Very true... and what a pity. This is a new consciousness emerging within
humanity. The reason it's gaining momentum is because the world needs it
desperately. Einstein said something like - Problems are never solved at
the same level of consciousness that created them. I'm concerned at the
high level of chemical repression. It's seems to be happening right through
the Western world. Will this new consciousness still be able to emerge into
our social structures and through them provide the answers that it seems to
promise? I'm sure Goddess has it handled but I can't stop my concern over
the waste of potential that might be occurring and the suffering that is
being created.
> I was
>literally burning in hell.
>>>Interesting metaphor to the heat some of us experience. My heat flashes
are never severe, so I see them like fever--burning off poisons of one sort
or another. When they are extreme it's obviously more difficult to accept
them.<<<
The severe heat was only in those first three months. During that time I
was burning hot for extended periods of time as K raced through me. I would
sweat profusely, to the degree that the sheets on the bed would be wet if I
was in it. There were a couple of days where this went on for 18 hours
without a break.
The interesting thing is that during the year I was working out I started to
wonder if you could freeze in hell too. I'm fairly sure that heaven is warm
and connected!
><snip>
>the words this presence was saying through her. After that I started to
>cooperate although I think there was still a lot of resistence being
>expressed through me. My conscious intention though was surrender.
>>>Lucky to have had a friend. She just allowed you to feel less afraid.<<<
Very lucky... it felt like divine intervention really. She has helped me
many times over the years. She is a great treasure to me! Sometimes I'm
sure she is God!
>During
>this year I was operating under the delusion that I was controlling the
>energy by my extreme workouts. Now what I think was happening was K wanted
>me to get really fit and I was doing exactly as it wanted. I could think
>whatever I liked!
>>>LOLOL! Absolutely! I think having the body fit is a K priority! But in
a sense you are controlling it by keeping the energy flowing smoothly.<<<
True but not to the degree that it was flowing or is now. I think it was
also
allowing me to integrate the experiences of those three months and come to
some type of understanding that I could live with. I also read obsessively
during this time. Often this reading would be reflected in my dreams. For
example, I had a series of 8 dreams in which I was Jung's mistress (a very
quant and old fashioned term and one I wouldn't have used consciously.)
Eventually I came to realise that this was indicating that Jung's ideas had
penetrated me and I could use them in understanding my experience. (I'm a
bit slow sometimes.) It was during this period that I came across info on
K, too. Lots of snake dreams!
> I feel I need feedback though. I'd
>really like to know how what I say affects you and where our similarities
>and differences in undergoing this process lie.
>>>Well, I think our experiences are very similar except that you went
through a period of trying to fight it. Your physical symptoms were also
more extreme, which made it more frightening. I had more positive feedback.
We all experience the mystical part somewhat differently.<<<
Yeah we do. Thanks.
> I have contented myself
>with reading for so long and I have felt very much alone in these
>experiences. If you could find it in your hearts to engage in an
>interactive process with me about these things I would be so grateful.
>>>That's what the list is for! After years of hearing many similar
experiences, there is an acceptance that becomes a silence. People on the
list say to themselves, "I've been there" but don't feel the need to
actually respond. There is a vibration to this list from all the lurkers
that seems send out silent support.<<<
Yes, there is and it is wonderful. Still it is nice when this feeling of
inner support is expressed and confirmed in the outer world. Not just for me
but for everyone. I do think that a lot is said here. It's an incredible
resource. The internet is a wonderful technology.
>Hillary, thank you for responding to my post. I deeply appreciate your
>commitment to the list and your responses to virtually all of the posts.
>Your knowledge, resources and warmth are incredibly nurturing and provide
>the list with a wonderful, gentle strength.
>>>thank you! Just giving back a little of what the list has given me over
the years. :))<<<
:)) Not everyone does this though. Thank you again!
Love,
Julie.
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