To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/08/02 11:22
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Diaphragmology/muscles of resp/BMC & Network C
From: Richard Friedel
On 2003/08/02 11:22, Richard Friedel posted thus to the K-list:
Helo Nina,
Nina Murrell-Kisner wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello, Richard,
>
> Thanks for the link and discussion of the muscles of respiration. It inspired
> me to do some web research on the topic. There is some variation among the
> classification of different muscles, but generally it is agreed that the
> diaphragm is a primary muscle of respiration (see one of the links below for a
> full run-down). It is interesting to see how the intercostals are viewed by
> various sources. While all of the sources classified the external and internal
> intercostals as muscles of respiration, some sources distinguished between
> labored and relaxed breathing. During labored breathing (as during exercise or
> when there is resistance toe inhale, during times when the body is signaled
> that much more oxygen is needed), the external intercostals draw the ribs and
> sternum up and out during inspiration and while the internal intercostals draw
> the ribs down and in during expiration. That differentiation is really
> fascinating, and could explain how you and I came to have different personal
> experiences and views on the roles of these muscles in respiration.
>
> I found this link particularly interesting as regards understanding the
> complexity of the role of muscles in respiration:
>
> http://www.d.umn.edu/~ameredit/anatomysite/Respirationmuscularsystemnotes.htm
>
> As I read through the notes, I found myself exploring what it felt like to
> breath primarily with each of the mentioned muscles. (Without resistance, and
> through my nose /grin/.) It really changes the experience of breathing to have
> the breath originate from the different muscle groups. This reminded me of two
> practices to which I have been exposed: Body Mind Centering and Network
> Chiropractic.
>
> The exposure I have had to the methods of Body Mind Centering was brief, but
> quite meaningful, in that it helped deepen my abilities to explore functional
> processes of the body as they arise from the organs and various systems of the
> body. Specifically, we studied how the organs, in particular the lungs,
> support/underpin asana. I think this is a critical difference in the directions
> from which the two of us enter this conversation. I am coming at it from inside
> the lungs (and using the nose, not the mouth for drawing and expelling air),
> from a perspective where muscular work is not the source of movement. It was an
> amazing study - and something which you might find a very interesting as a
> comparison to what you have learned and experienced:
>
> http://www.bodymindcentering.com/
>
> (It is also the source of my initial exposure to the conche in the nose and
> their functional relation to the inhalation into the corresponding lobes of the
> lungs.)
>
> Breathing from the individual muscles involved in respiration reminded me of
> the experience of Network Chiropractic adjustments and what happens when (what
> NC practicioners refer to as) gates open. The breath spontaneously moves
> through that gate in a wave-like manner. Sometimes, by intentionally bringing
> the breath/consciousness to the area of the gate, the 'spontaneous' breath can
> be precipitated.
>
> How strange that you find my terminology to be 'non-technical' and 'spiritual'.
> I suppose it is a matter of perspective.
>
> Richard, here is a link I thought you might find interesting:
>
> http://www.cmtnews.com/breathing/breathingpage2.html
This is restricted to the Charcot-Marie-Tooth (CMT) disease
>
> "Of the hereditary neuropathies, CMT disease or hereditary motor and sensory
> neuropathy is undoubtedly the most common. CMT disease is characterized by
> chronic degeneration of peripheral nerves and roots, resulting in muscle
> wasting, beginning in the feet and legs and subsequently involving the hands.
> The association of CMT disease with diaphragm weakness resulting in major
> breathing difficulty was first reported by us in 1985."
>
> This article brought to mind the differences one experiences in the aspects of
> the breath (inhale, exhale, pause) when the body is positioned in different
> relationships to gravity. It is easier to inhale / harder to exhale while
> upright; it is easier to exhale / harder to inhale when inverted (as in
> handstand). There is also a difference in the length/quality of the pause
> between exhale and inhale. This can be explained partially by what the
> diaphragm has to 'move' in the different positions relative to gravity.
>
> You asked how I can tell if someone is breathing diaphragmatically. It is
> through observation of the expansion of the belly in relation to the expansion
> of the ribcage. When the belly expands slightly and the torso waves slightly,
> while the ribcage expands relatively minimally (compared to chest breathing),
> it is diaphragmatic. Diaphragmatic breathing, for me, carries the quality of
> core power (inherently, without working at it), and is calming to the mind and
> body. I tend to think of diaphragmatic breathing as something that occurs
> naturally when the obstacles to it are removed. It is the way our bodies are
> designed to breathe. Another way of looking at it is that any time the
> diaphragm moves with a breath, it has the qualities of the diaphragm, which
> make that breath 'diaphragmatic'.
Sorry, but this might be just what André van Lysebeth, a great
interpreter of pranayama, warns against. (His German book is entitled
"the great opwer of breathing, the corresponding English version
possibly "Pranayama")
He has a picture headed "Inhalation without control of the abdominal
wall". There is a distinctly pot-bellied effect.
He explains "After and expiration with the aid of the diaphragm without
control of the abdominal wall the diaphragm has been lowered and the
base of the lungs has filled with air. Note that the abdominal cavity,
which at the start was egg-shaped, has been flattened at the top
without however any substantial change in volume. The organs have been
displaced downwards and forwards. In the course of time a permanent
change in the abdominal wall my result. Respiration becomes more and
more belly breathing. The organs, which are filled with an excess of
blood, are constipated (or blocked), circulation is slowed down and
biological processes retarded. This manner of breathing, which is
normally not to be recommended is impossible in pranayama, for in
addition to other disadvantages, rib cage and lung apex respiration is
put at risk. The two following drawings show correct respiration with
control of the abdominal wall."
One of these figures shows "Yogi inhalation with control of the
abdominal wall"
He states "During an inhale the "diaphragm piston" goes down. At the end
of an inhale it has gone down just as far as breathing without any
control of the abdominal wall. There is therefore no decrease in the
amount of inspired air, although the abdominal wall is elastically
retained instead of giving away to the mass of the internal organs,
pushed back by the diaphragm.
Underneath the navel the abdominal wall remains drawn in (not cramped)!
Above the navel it gives away slightly without stopping control and
without stopping keeping hold of the organs which are moved outwards by
the diaphragm.
>
> Breathing patterns are very intimately connected to postural patterns. So,
> while checking to see if a breath is diaphragmatic is one checkpoint, there are
> many other equally telling checkpoints. Bonnie Bainbridge Cohen's book Sensing,
> Feeling, Action has a fun section on reading bodies. You might find it helpful
> in the work you do giving instruction on breathing to the Taekwondo group.
>
> Richard, I found it curious that when you replied to my question about why it
> seems impossible to you to breathe with the diaphragm without resistance, that
> you resorted to sourcing articles. I appreciate that, as I found the articles
> interesting and educational, but I also wonder why you don't seem to be
> referencing your own source - your own bodily experience. I can trust that as
> much as an article. So, might I repeat, what is it that you experience when you
> try to breathe through the nose without resistance?
Not quite sure what you mean.
About conches and control of breath flow into lung lobes, where exactly
is the text (URL and some simple indication of navigastion)?
Thanks for your comments. Do you also believe in teh Socratic Method as
much as I do?
Best wishes, Richard
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