To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/04/16 16:34
Subject: Re: [K-list] Evil...
From: SAC
On 2003/04/16 16:34, SAC posted thus to the K-list:
> Message: 2
Hey Danijel...
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:38:44 +0200
> To: <K-list AT_NOSPAM kundalini-gateway.org>
> From: Danijel Turina <dturina AT_NOSPAM inet.hr>
> Subject: Re: [K-list] Evil...
>
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> At 06:46 14.4.2003 -0600, SAC wrote:
> >> Hello Susan, (and I thought I'll just look what's there and not
> >> post:)
> >
> >Hey Sweetie, Long time no hear from....
>
> Long indeed, my Dear. :) I've been busy, wrote 3 books, got married,
> almost got killed a couple of times, the usual. :))
Yeah! You go boy...congrats!
>
> >> OK, let me see. What you are saying is that there's only
> >> perfection in this world, but the people act imperfectly because
> >> they are
> >> imperfect. :) I'd say this is a very interesting statement. ;)
> >
> >Nah, people act imperfectly because they don't know who they are and
> >are afraid.
>
> And them not knowing who they are is supposed be some kind of
> perfection? ;)
certainly.... give them all the answers up front and then whose answers
do they have?
> Only God is perfect in the absolute sense. Everything else can be
> perfect only in a very relative sense - a hair dryer is perfect if it
> performs its function well. A toaster is perfect if it makes good
> toast and doesn't break down. A car is perfect if it performs the
> functions of a car perfectly. This world is perfect if it helps
> people to attain the highest goal, or to make their choices, or
> whatever they came here to do.
> But perfect in a sense that everything in it is good, you must be
> kidding. ;)
See my answer to David... I fumble around for words much of the
time...so I throw something out there and let others start to define
words.
>
> >> >People create evil out of their own lack of understanding of the
> >> >true nature of their essence. Since evil is created it can be
> >> >uncreated.
> >>
> >> OK, so, evil doesn't exist, but it does exist and consists of
> >> ignorance. :)
> >
> >It does exist as a projection and lack of understanding.
>
> OK, so evil exists, and it is defined as projection and lack of
> understanding. :)
still learning as always....words are not my forte.
>
> >It can be
> >manufactured just as fear can as a response when there is nothing to
> >fear.
>
> Exactly. But fear can be real even when the object of fear doesn't
> exist. The famous Sankaracarya's example with a rope in a dark room,
> mistaken for a snake.
Yes..that is so also...Fear is only a complex chemical reaction
stimulated by memory...but that doesn't make things any less fearful
snip
> It's good to know that you don't take your silly theories too
> seriously. :)
I don't take anything too seriously these days. And being silly can
actually be healthy.
Snip
> >
> >:) Yes, this suffering does happen. Shall we call this "evil" then?
> >
>
> No, not suffering. Suffering can have many causes, and not all of
> them on the same level. But what would you say if you went into your
> highest state, and someone looked at you - you'd know that he saw
> where you are, that he indeed sees it. And then you see immense
> hatred in his eyes, hatred towards both you and that which you love
> and admire, hatred that spits at your spirit and deems it worthless?
> Now, that is evil.
People grow up being turned inside out, upside down, outside in and
downside up, black is white, white is black about the nature of what is
so. Evil acting for sure but not evil.
People feel me, who I am. Some call me evil and hate me, some say bliss
and love me. *shrug*
It doesn't even have to cause suffering, it's
> enough for it to exist to be called Evil, for it is the direct
> opposite to the Good.
>
> >The
> >only "evil" and suffering that we can totally affect is the conflict
> >we have created in our own hearts from the opposition to the Divine.
> >We can only see in others what we have recognized in ourselves.
>
> OK, and what if you encounter someone who hates _everything_? Whose
> each part hates every other part? Whose personality split into
> fragments because they all hate each other? Someone who recognizes
> only the lowest in everyone, in everything, even in God? Do we admit
> there is evil, or do we continue playing with words? :)
Does the action of acting out evil, being and doing hateful things mean
one's essence is evil? Hmmm...where do miracles fit in
here...transformation and transcendence.... a choice made in the blink
of an eye causes instant transformation. Why does it work for some and
not for others?
Snip
> >Well, there you go...thanks for explaining that in detail for me. :)
> >I agree.
>
> It would be nice if you used the standard terms in conversation, it
> would make things easier. :)
Then please write a definition or standard terms in a glossary to define
such abstractions. Then get everyone to agree to them.
> >Oy Danijel, treat the suffering in our own hearts first, where
> >conflict begins, where delusion lives. Then words are not necessary
> >when the heart is at peace. Tenderness and compassion radiate.
>
> :)
> Do you really think that all that is important is the state of _your_
> heart? Do you really think it will negate the existence of objective
> evil in others? Do you really think that everybody becomes good if
> _you_ observe only goodness? Come on!
Not for everyone in every time. One would be enough. :) If only a small
portion of us practices the discipline of peace and affects only one
person. Then that one person begins practicing the discipline of peace
and they in turn only affect one person. Someone do the math. How long
before this becomes silly in terms of exponentially affecting the lives
of others?
>
> >You assume that I think the body is bondage and I seek to be
> >liberated.
>
> You seem to be very unwilling to accept some of the very obvious
> realities of the physical plane.
By experience I am naïve. I don't live a stone's throw from Bosnia like
you do. And I am not that naïve. If I was, hello...human shield in Iran.
How imprudent, insensitive, and egotistical is that?
From that, I conclude that you don't
> feel very much at home here, and that you attempt to create some sort
> of a comfort zone in you, to protect you from the physical reality.
If this was truly so then I would not be such a cynic about human
behavior.
Lol
> It is not a bad thing, for you thus anchor the substance of the
> mental plane into your physical body and the physical plane; also, I
> wouldn't necessarily say that it is self-deception, for the physical
> plane consists mostly of deceptions and lies - what it tells us,
> isn't really the truth. It tries to convince us that we are limited,
> mortal, stupid etc. None of those things are true, however the
> physical plane constantly bombards us with them. Your concept of the
> nonexistence of evil is a reality of a somewhat higher order than
> that of the existence of evil - for evil, being the absence of light
> and reality, in fact negates its own existence, and such negation can
> be perceived only on a plane of existence so low, that it almost
> touches nonexistence itself.
> However, in a world which is a combination of both the unreal and the
> real, of both the illusions and the reality, it is prudent to observe
> the existence of the unreal and the illusory - it is called viveka,
> discrimination. Find what is good and take it, find what is bad and
> ignore it.
I would call it discernment, wisdom, living prudently.
>
> >Nothing is further from the truth for me. I am enjoying my bodily
> >incarnation.
>
> Do you, really? Do you enjoy the bodily part of it, or the spiritual
> part of it? Think about it. The bodily part is what you encounter at
> the dentist, for instance; very unromantic.
And the bodily part in sex (can be quite unromantic too) and feeling the
aliveness in every cell of my body. Yes, I do enjoy my
incarnation...lumps and diseases and joys and ecstasies.
>
> >Where I am is where I am to be. Peace is present now, the
> >stars shine within me. Location has nothing to do with it. I am not
> >in prison, looking for liberation. And if something happens that can
> >cause me danger, then I move.
> >
> >You offer an extreme example but rarely does such extreme behavior
> >happen
>
> Does it indeed? It suffices to read some newspapers with the bad
> news, and you'll see that it isn't so rare at all. Also, the theories
> hold or crumble on the extreme examples. :)
It does happen, but to be clear, it rarely happens to me on a personal
level. I do see it from time to time in my work as a nurse and it makes
my skin crawl. It is then I can test the theories. They seem to be
working so far and my skin crawls less and less...a work in progress.
>
> >I work as a registered nurse. Every day I see those caught in
> >delusion and suffering.
>
> Ah, thus the immune system. :)
>
> >I have also been physically harmed at work by those who
> >are possessed in their delusions. The only thing I can control is my
> >response to violence. I do not have to respond with a violent mind.
>
> You don't need to react to evil with violence just because you
> recognize it as evil. I, in fact, do not react to evil at all. My
> instinctive, natural reaction to it is absolutely nothing. Total
> indifference. There is none of it in me, and none of me in it. No
> interaction, no exchange of energy, no emotion whatsoever. No
> communication.
Funny how non reaction can piss people off in their drama of "evil me".
That's when I get called a bitch. *shrug* Non reaction, stillness can be
interpreted as a threat and as an insult....potentiating a volatile
situation. So I walk away.
>
> >You know, Danijel, that all those greatest qualities are there. We
> >mirror what we see, yes? :)
>
> Depends on how you define "see". Not all see in the same way, or with
> the same organs. Also, not all choose to react to that which they
> see, or to mirror it. You can see evil. You can fail to react in any
> way. See it, and love God more just because it's so ugly, just to be
> yourself more. Reverse mirror.
Yes...so I have seen.
>
> >> (Oh I'm bad, evil in fact, yes I am, yup:))
> >
> >I am glad you are. :) Bad to the bone...yep..that would be you.
>
> So, what's been happening here recently? :)
same old stuff, new people, warmer environment...
Susan
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