To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/04/15 16:38
Subject: Re: [K-list] Evil...
From: Danijel Turina
On 2003/04/15 16:38, Danijel Turina posted thus to the K-list:
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At 06:46 14.4.2003 -0600, SAC wrote:
>> Hello Susan, (and I thought I'll just look what's there and not
>> post:)
>
>Hey Sweetie, Long time no hear from....
Long indeed, my Dear. :) I've been busy, wrote 3 books, got married,
almost got killed a couple of times, the usual. :))
>> OK, let me see. What you are saying is that there's only
>> perfection in this world, but the people act imperfectly because
>> they are
>> imperfect. :) I'd say this is a very interesting statement. ;)
>
>Nah, people act imperfectly because they don't know who they are and
>are afraid.
And them not knowing who they are is supposed be some kind of
perfection? ;)
Only God is perfect in the absolute sense. Everything else can be
perfect only in a very relative sense - a hair dryer is perfect if it
performs its function well. A toaster is perfect if it makes good
toast and doesn't break down. A car is perfect if it performs the
functions of a car perfectly. This world is perfect if it helps
people to attain the highest goal, or to make their choices, or
whatever they came here to do.
But perfect in a sense that everything in it is good, you must be
kidding. ;)
>> >People create evil out of their own lack of understanding of the
>> >true nature of their essence. Since evil is created it can be
>> >uncreated.
>>
>> OK, so, evil doesn't exist, but it does exist and consists of
>> ignorance. :)
>
>It does exist as a projection and lack of understanding.
OK, so evil exists, and it is defined as projection and lack of
understanding. :)
>It can be
>manufactured just as fear can as a response when there is nothing to
>fear.
Exactly. But fear can be real even when the object of fear doesn't
exist. The famous Sankaracarya's example with a rope in a dark room,
mistaken for a snake.
>> >Do so by becoming cultivating a pool of peace in your own heart.
>> >Soon there will be no room for even the recognition of what
>> >people call evil.
>>
>> :)) OK, so, you are basically saying that if a guy smacked you on
>> the head, tied you up and raped you all day, you would only be
>> cultivating the pool of peace in your own heart, smiling at him
>> blissfully and thanking him for the wonderful experience? :)
>
>Danijel, Danijel, Danijel....
Susan, Susan Susan... :))))
>Heh...you know I wouldn't.
No, you would scratch his eyes out and feed them to him, a good thing
to do too. :)
>That would be silly, wouldn't it? :) Because
>people act imperfectly the wise solution would be to act prudently.
>I may be an eternal being but I live in a body made of organic
>material. Am I totally detached from that attachment and what is the
>result of that? No...nor would I want to be.
It's good to know that you don't take your silly theories too
seriously. :)
>> raped. The others saw him and had to forge some word for this, and
>> this word was "evil", which, in fact, denotes all the disharmonic
>> things in which God is not reflected, and which are based on
>> ignorance, delusion and opposition to everything Divine, and which
>> result in suffering.
>
>:) Yes, this suffering does happen. Shall we call this "evil" then?
>
No, not suffering. Suffering can have many causes, and not all of
them on the same level. But what would you say if you went into your
highest state, and someone looked at you - you'd know that he saw
where you are, that he indeed sees it. And then you see immense
hatred in his eyes, hatred towards both you and that which you love
and admire, hatred that spits at your spirit and deems it worthless?
Now, that is evil. It doesn't even have to cause suffering, it's
enough for it to exist to be called Evil, for it is the direct
opposite to the Good.
>The
>only "evil" and suffering that we can totally affect is the conflict
>we have created in our own hearts from the opposition to the Divine.
>We can only see in others what we have recognized in ourselves.
OK, and what if you encounter someone who hates _everything_? Whose
each part hates every other part? Whose personality split into
fragments because they all hate each other? Someone who recognizes
only the lowest in everyone, in everything, even in God? Do we admit
there is evil, or do we continue playing with words? :)
>> trouble ends doesn't work here. It works on the higher levels,
>> where, if you don't observe the problems, they do not cross paths
>> with your existence. Here, the problems cross paths with
>> everybody's existence, because this world is a mixture of
>> everything.
>
>Well, there you go...thanks for explaining that in detail for me. :)
>I agree.
It would be nice if you used the standard terms in conversation, it
would make things easier. :)
>> OK. You go tell this guy that he's in fact a creature of love and
>> light, that he is the embodiment of the Divine Self, that all the
>> greatest qualities are in his innermost nature. In fact, don't
>> ever bother to observe the shotgun he's pointing at your head, and
>> when he blows you up and smiles (he he, look at this mess, he he),
>> you will know that he in fact did a good and noble thing there,
>> freeing you from your bodily bondage, so that you can now go to
>> that place where there is no evil, no harm, nothing but the ocean
>> of peace, smiling at the light of the stars above.
>> ;>>>>>
>
>Oy Danijel, treat the suffering in our own hearts first, where
>conflict begins, where delusion lives. Then words are not necessary
>when the heart is at peace. Tenderness and compassion radiate.
:)
Do you really think that all that is important is the state of _your_
heart? Do you really think it will negate the existence of objective
evil in others? Do you really think that everybody becomes good if
_you_ observe only goodness? Come on!
>You assume that I think the body is bondage and I seek to be
>liberated.
You seem to be very unwilling to accept some of the very obvious
realities of the physical plane. From that, I conclude that you don't
feel very much at home here, and that you attempt to create some sort
of a comfort zone in you, to protect you from the physical reality.
It is not a bad thing, for you thus anchor the substance of the
mental plane into your physical body and the physical plane; also, I
wouldn't necessarily say that it is self-deception, for the physical
plane consists mostly of deceptions and lies - what it tells us,
isn't really the truth. It tries to convince us that we are limited,
mortal, stupid etc. None of those things are true, however the
physical plane constantly bombards us with them. Your concept of the
nonexistence of evil is a reality of a somewhat higher order than
that of the existence of evil - for evil, being the absence of light
and reality, in fact negates its own existence, and such negation can
be perceived only on a plane of existence so low, that it almost
touches nonexistence itself.
However, in a world which is a combination of both the unreal and the
real, of both the illusions and the reality, it is prudent to observe
the existence of the unreal and the illusory - it is called viveka,
discrimination. Find what is good and take it, find what is bad and
ignore it.
>Nothing is further from the truth for me. I am enjoying my bodily
>incarnation.
Do you, really? Do you enjoy the bodily part of it, or the spiritual
part of it? Think about it. The bodily part is what you encounter at
the dentist, for instance; very unromantic.
>Where I am is where I am to be. Peace is present now, the
>stars shine within me. Location has nothing to do with it. I am not
>in prison, looking for liberation. And if something happens that can
>cause me danger, then I move.
>
>You offer an extreme example but rarely does such extreme behavior
>happen
Does it indeed? It suffices to read some newspapers with the bad
news, and you'll see that it isn't so rare at all. Also, the theories
hold or crumble on the extreme examples. :)
>I work as a registered nurse. Every day I see those caught in
>delusion and suffering.
Ah, thus the immune system. :)
>I have also been physically harmed at work by those who
>are possessed in their delusions. The only thing I can control is my
>response to violence. I do not have to respond with a violent mind.
You don't need to react to evil with violence just because you
recognize it as evil. I, in fact, do not react to evil at all. My
instinctive, natural reaction to it is absolutely nothing. Total
indifference. There is none of it in me, and none of me in it. No
interaction, no exchange of energy, no emotion whatsoever. No
communication.
>You know, Danijel, that all those greatest qualities are there. We
>mirror what we see, yes? :)
Depends on how you define "see". Not all see in the same way, or with
the same organs. Also, not all choose to react to that which they
see, or to mirror it. You can see evil. You can fail to react in any
way. See it, and love God more just because it's so ugly, just to be
yourself more. Reverse mirror.
>> (Oh I'm bad, evil in fact, yes I am, yup:))
>
>I am glad you are. :) Bad to the bone...yep..that would be you.
So, what's been happening here recently? :)
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