To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/03/11 10:40
Subject: [K-list] Toronto Blessing . . .
From: Bhavin Desai
On 2003/03/11 10:40, Bhavin Desai posted thus to the K-list:
Susan,
Here are my additional (probably last) comments on this discussion:
> Susan: I shared your inquiry with a martial arts master and a deeply
> orthodox Christian. He is also an engineer and scientist with a Ph.D.
My background (for information only): I am a Yoga student & teacher,
Hindu, with a BSc and an MPhil in Mathematics, and have a career in
technical computer security consultancy.
The response from the martial arts master validated most of the first
part of my email in a very practical manner. Thanks for that. From my
point of view, the response was too specific and too particular, getting
involved in unnecessary detail. Although he seems to know just about
enough of some of the Indian and Chinese systems to be able to discuss
them, he does not appear to understand them deeply enough, probably
inhibited by being so deeply orthodox Christian. I believe his hidden
agenda is not so hidden.
[An aside: considering that he appears to be such a deeply orthodox
Christian, how does this allow him to follow and teach Eastern martial
arts?]
My interest is to find a universal understanding of Kundalini, and I
believe this is one of the main objectives of the K-List. The best
method to compare different views is to have a common glossary
corresponding to the important concepts that need to be discussed. (As
soon as we dip into a particular system's terminology, it becomes
difficult for people outside that system to follow what is being claimed
or stated.) The biggest problem in any type of discussion is that
different people have different meanings attached to the same words (and
the same meanings for different words).
> In all seriousness I disagree. See below for why...
He may disagree, but I don't agree with the reasons for his
disagreement. Unlike Mathematics and Law (?), there are no "proofs" in
most systems, and it all eventually comes down to belief. It's a bit
like "do what you want and justify it later" analogous to "shoot first,
ask later".
> Him: Some Christians...even many of the more Pentecostal<sp> consider
the
> Toronto blessing suspect because it doesn't match historical or
scriptural
> descriptions of the Holy Spirit, one of which is the Person of God.
He should be aware that a lot of the recorded history (especially, but
not exclusively, religious history) is politically motivated in the
interest of the "general public". For example, the concept of
reincarnation was banned by the Church even though it was accepted by
early Christians. Another example, it is known that Jesus was born into
a vegetarian family, but this is not widely acknowledged. It is the way
of the world that people (either individually or in groups) pick and
choose what they like, when they like, for their own purposes,
regardless of the intrinsic truth/falsehood. The justifications usually
come later. That's fine. That's freedom of choice to some extent.
However, to force one's view onto another person is morally and
ethically unacceptable.
> Him: Ah, no. Kundalini is a purely created (see note below) effect
that
> has nothing to do with God's Grace. You can be pure evil and get
there.
> [etc . . .]
His pre-conditioning is obvious.
> Him: What you call Christianity, Dear Heart, is neither Traditional
nor
> Christian. It's a heresy (a false path) that either turns into a good
guy
> religion or a form of Calvinism.... It turns man and woman into an
empty
> puppet....and relieves him of all responsibility for his actions.
What right has anyone to call any path false??? Would he like a similar
comment directed towards him by other Christians/etc???
> Him: That's because part of the favorite American heresy is the Bible
is
> the Word of God. It's not. It's the history of God's trying to get
thru to
> us. The Word of God is Christ Jesus.
This sounds like gibberish. Surely, the Bible contains the words of
Jesus Christ in the New Testament as recorded by his disciples??? Have
other Christians missed something important here?
> Him: Such a child! I knew you were young but<evil leer>
The <evil leer> does not inspire any confidence in me about him.
***I really could not follow much of the rest of his message and gave up
trying. In fact, most of his response seemed to be "beating his own
drum" and was not very relevant to the mutual understanding objectives
of the K-List.
> Susan: I do give people the benefit of my experiences on a regular
basis.
> [. . .]
> I also own the kundalini sex list on Yahoo and moderate on the k list
> where I have been a member almost from its inception.
> I may have some responsibility. I educate/instruct when there is
interest.
That's excellent. My situation is similar in the sense that I let
everyone know my interest in Yoga/Kundalini/etc and if they want to
learn further then I am happy to instruct/teach.
------------------------
Having talked to many followers of extremist religious views, over
several decades, my abstraction is as follows:
Claim 1: Our God is the only ONE God.
Claim 2: Our way/path/system/method is the ONLY one.
Claim 2: If you are not in this way/path/system/method then you have no
chance of Heaven/God/<equivalent>.
I find that the above claims, and similar ones, to be unacceptable.
People are different. There are many paths and systems so that any
individual can find a suitable one for his/her character and
personality.
Also, we are all in the same Universe. We all see the same Nature. We
all talk about the same God. Can any one person or group force a
specific terminology or system on everyone else?
Recall the story/parable/fable about the four blind men who had to
describe an elephant. One said it is like a snake (trunk), one said it
is like a spear (tusks), one said it is like a small house (body), one
said it is like a fan (big ear). Others could say it is like a tree
(legs), or rope (tail), etc. Therefore, even apart from the fact that
words are no sufficient, no single person can adequately describe
God/<equivalent>. This explains to some extent why there are so many
descriptions/discussions/disagreements throughout the world.
Jack.
To adjust your subscription or get a reminder of your password, visit:
http://kundalini-gateway.org/mailman/listinfo/k-list_kundalini-gateway.org
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.