To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/01/29 08:51
Subject: [k-list] KXrux
From: Lobster
On 2003/01/29 08:51, Lobster posted thus to the K-list:
>So I guess you don't see kundalini and spirit as dimensions of the same thing?
Dear Friend,
As you know there is the Absolute and relative realm.
Your guess belongs to the relative
and so does any answer.
>But I guess the thing that threw me is the causality implied, kundalini fragments what? To me it just is - I guess some of what it can fragment is the egoic narrative? But to the extent that might be true, my own experience has been that it has fragmented that which was not in concert with my deepest Self. But perhaps that's not where you're going, because you suggest spirit mending - and "egoic narrative" doesn't seem like what you might want to mend. And the deepest Self doesn't need mending. Or don't you agree? And the snake is of no use to what purpose?? K can cause bliss or discomfort, this is true. But from my perspective, my discomfort can ultimately be the seed of great expansion, and the seat of a deepening of compassion and human understanding. So begone ye old outworn ego patterns!
LOL
So begone ye old outworn ego patterns!
>Rumi did not value lifting his voice to describe the indescribable, to make love to the Beloved? Hmmm, perhaps he did, perhaps he didn't. As any artist who struggles to incompletely execute their vision realizes it is never the thing. But to blame it on the audience's ignorance? Naah, I doubt Rumi was into scapegoating the "inferior other" so much.
So begone ye old outworn ego patterns and imagined goats and inferior others!
>Ouf! Ouch! Should I duck? You put yourself in league with the majority of elite opinion (quantify please, I hope it's at least 51% of genuine Teachers) and dismiss the topic of this discussion list as irrelevant and then offer a (not so) oblique challenge about genuine spirituality. If it were a different time of the month I might just bite. :-P As it is, I'm feeling pretty happy, so I guess I'll just shrug. I'll just say that as I know I can still struggle with arrogance, the teachers I've been drawn to follow resonate with humility.
You are a duck with a stiff k-neck
(takes one to know one)
that enjoys the unbending that will break you
I guess you enjoy suffering
- there is certainly enough for us to play with . . .
:-)
>There have been times I've felt the rush of kundalini, there are other times, on retreat, that I have experienced ecstatic bliss, in both contracted and expanded states. But I usually live in the world. So what I've found is that it is in the maintenance of these states and capacities, which are initially developed during k-rushes, retreats, yoga and meditation practice and micropractices (aka breath) that yield results that slowly extend and integrate into my daily life - and that brings me joy and faith (yep, that old bugaboo, faith).
The question you have to ask yourself
are you happy enough
to rest . . . not yet . . .
LOL
>I guess we just come at all of these things very differently. By definition I would say everything is spiritual, spirit, matter, e=mc2. . . but to read beyond the words, I guess I would say that your Path chooses you. There is a Sufi saying "The Secret Protects Itself." You cannot understand this inner call until you have it. And when it is first making a space for itself in your heart there is some stretching in the heart center, some anguish or pain, perhaps some discomfort. Some ineffable himma/longing. I admit that in the past it has worried me, I've suffered about my longing. Now, I realize and lovingly submit to it. I guess I now believe that it only happens because in my most authentic level of Self, I made this request and it was answered. And that I would feel nothing and know nothing of this if I had no capacity to know it. So the person who seeks it, is following it.
That seems a very sound and solid answer.
>What is the implied purpose you are seeking?
>
>with warm curiosity,
>X
Thanks very much :-)
to share a poem and a joke will be sufficient . . .
Lobster
=========
The teachers, seventy year old Kalu Rinpoche of Tibet, a veteran
of years of solitary retreat, and the Zen master Seung Sahn, the
first Korean Zen master to teach in the United States, were to
test each other's understanding of the Buddha's teachings for
the benefit of the onlooking Western students. This was to be a
high form of what was being called dharma-combat (the clashing
of great minds sharpened by years of study and meditation), and we
were waiting with all the anticipation that such a historic
encounter deserved.
The two monks entered with swirling robes --
maroon and yellow for the Tibetan, austere grey and black for
the Korean -- and were followed by retinues of younger monks and
translators with shaven heads. They settled onto cushions in the
familiar cross-legged positions, and the host made it clear that
the younger Zen master was to begin. The Tibetan lama sat very
still, fingering a wooden rosary(mala) with one hand while
murmuring, "Om Mani Peme Hung" continuously under his breath.
The Zen master, who was already gaining renown for his method of
hurling questions at his students until they were forced to admit
their ignorance and then bellowing, "Keep that don't know mind!"
at them, reached deep inside his robes and drew out an orange.
"What is this?" he demanded of the lama. "What is this?"
This was a typical opening question, and we could feel him ready to
pounce on whatever response he was given.
The Tibetan sat quietly fingering his mala and made no move to
respond.
"What is this?" the Zen master insisted, holding the orange up
to the Tibetan's nose.
Kalu Rinpoche bent very slowly to the Tibetan monk near to him
who was serving as the translator, and they whispered back and
forth for several minutes.
Finally the translator addressed the room:
"Rinpoche says, 'What is the matter with him? Don't
they have oranges where he comes from?"
The dialog progressed no further.
Mark Epstein
Thoughts without a Thinker
about psychotherapy from a Buddhist perspective
================
O Friend, You made me lovingly,
put me in a dress of skin and blood.
Then planted deep inside me
a seed from Your heart
You turned the whole world
into a sanctuary where You are
the only One.
~Rumi~
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