To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/01/28 02:16
Subject: Re: [k-list] Illustration
From: Xerxenca
On 2003/01/28 02:16, Xerxenca posted thus to the K-list:
>>Wait, wait - what?? Kundalini fragments? I do NOT understand what you mean.
>You do.
>Perhaps you mean that is not how you
>experience things.
>:-) OK
>It is sufficiently clear to some that
>k fragments, disrupts, makes insane etc etc.
>and the Spirit integrates, heals, makes whole, improves etc etc
>You are happy with your interpretation of
?occurrences - so all is well and there is
>no requirement or need to understand
>from my perspective as you no doubt equate k with spirit . . .
So I guess you don't see kundalini and spirit as dimensions of the same thing?
And, by the way, I'm not so certain what it is that I understand and what it is that I don't. I've happily rematriculated to student mode right now.
So far, my understanding of kundalini has to do with how I've experienced spirit IN my body. There are other times when I'm not so aware of me (and my body) and I'm just IN spirit. I guess the easiest state for me to function in the world is when I am aware but not consumed in either direction.
But I guess the thing that threw me is the causality implied, kundalini fragments what? To me it just is - I guess some of what it can fragment is the egoic narrative? But to the extent that might be true, my own experience has been that it has fragmented that which was not in concert with my deepest Self. But perhaps that's not where you're going, because you suggest spirit mending - and "egoic narrative" doesn't seem like what you might want to mend. And the deepest Self doesn't need mending. Or don't you agree? And the snake is of no use to what purpose?? K can cause bliss or discomfort, this is true. But from my perspective, my discomfort can ultimately be the seed of great expansion, and the seat of a deepening of compassion and human understanding. So begone ye old outworn ego patterns!
>>Mr Lobster - would you sincerely, in your own lexicon, describe Rumi's writing as insanity?
>No I would not.
OK - thanks for the clarification.
<snip>
>Compared to the real Sufi experience.
>Rumi did not value poetry highly but
>provided it much as a good host
>for those with no deeper appreciation capacity . . .
Rumi did not value lifting his voice to describe the indescribable, to make love to the Beloved? Hmmm, perhaps he did, perhaps he didn't. As any artist who struggles to incompletely execute their vision realizes it is never the thing. But to blame it on the audience's ignorance? Naah, I doubt Rumi was into scapegoating the "inferior other" so much.
Some of us just write. You know? It's what we do.
Emily Dickinson wrote:
A word is dead when it is said, some say
I say it just begins to live that day
But then again, she wrote in isolation and Rumi wrote for an audience? Blessed be our humanity in these limited attempts to express ourselves!
>In a similar way the majority of Teachers engaged in spirituality
>consider any arisings of 'kundalini' or similar enthralling experiences
>and energies as largely irrelevant
>to real progress and often an obstacle
>That is my understanding and experience.
>Yours may be different.
>However not everyone is interested in genuine spirituality
>That is something we have
>to ascertain for ourselves.
:-)
>Just as your mode of interaction and
>mine is our choice.
Ouf! Ouch! Should I duck? You put yourself in league with the majority of elite opinion (quantify please, I hope it's at least 51% of genuine Teachers) and dismiss the topic of this discussion list as irrelevant and then offer a (not so) oblique challenge about genuine spirituality. If it were a different time of the month I might just bite. :-P As it is, I'm feeling pretty happy, so I guess I'll just shrug. I'll just say that as I know I can still struggle with arrogance, the teachers I've been drawn to follow resonate with humility.
There have been times I've felt the rush of kundalini, there are other times, on retreat, that I have experienced ecstatic bliss, in both contracted and expanded states. But I usually live in the world. So what I've found is that it is in the maintenance of these states and capacities, which are initially developed during k-rushes, retreats, yoga and meditation practice and micropractices (aka breath) that yield results that slowly extend and integrate into my daily life - and that brings me joy and faith (yep, that old bugaboo, faith).
>To be fair I think you are asking
>me if there is anything of value in Rumi
>and what does one do after gaining a degree of stability?
>I suppose the answer is to look a little deeper . . .
>Let me ask you (remember the answer is unique to you
>- not a requirement for me)
>What are the qualities of a spiritual person?
I guess we just come at all of these things very differently. By definition I would say everything is spiritual, spirit, matter, e=mc2. . . but to read beyond the words, I guess I would say that your Path chooses you. There is a Sufi saying "The Secret Protects Itself." You cannot understand this inner call until you have it. And when it is first making a space for itself in your heart there is some stretching in the heart center, some anguish or pain, perhaps some discomfort. Some ineffable himma/longing. I admit that in the past it has worried me, I've suffered about my longing. Now, I realize and lovingly submit to it. I guess I now believe that it only happens because in my most authentic level of Self, I made this request and it was answered. And that I would feel nothing and know nothing of this if I had no capacity to know it. So the person who seeks it, is following it.
>How are they developed?
One of my teachers has said something along these lines: The commitment to that portion of the Path is one that happens inside your heart and independent of willfulness and ego. It will open on its own. It will open intention in your heart. The opening of makams begin to reveal itself to you.
What is the implied purpose you are seeking?
with warm curiosity,
X
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