To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/01/05 04:20
Subject: Re: [K-list] Third Eye/Pineal Gland Health
From: J.E.M.
On 2003/01/05 04:20, J.E.M. posted thus to the K-list:
Hi Roversoma and everyone,
I'm a little late in forwarding my opinion on the subjects of pain vs
suffering and being enlightened/awakened vs total achievement of
enlightenment, but I found your research interesting and wanted to let
you know some ideas I have about these subjects.
> > Enlightenment relieves suffering, not pain -- big difference.(snip)
> > Enlightenment changes one's relationship to pain because
> > one is no longer felt to be an individual person to whom the pain
> is happening. But as far as I know, pain is always possible as long
> as there is a body around. Holly
The first time I heard something similar to what Holly said in this 2nd
phrase I thaught the guy was plain insensitive until I understood what
it really meant when I started to truly accept and come to peace with
pain causing suffering, so I now feel the same way about what is
mentioned.
> I understand the concept of not identifying personally with the
> pain. But at that point is it the same?
> Do dips into Samadhi work
> as a natural anodyne?
From my experience, yes. We can dissociate from the preconceived
associations that are programmed in our minds i.e. pain equals
suffering. But the effect is temporary.
> If you are not experiencing the pain as an
> individual do you at that point take drugs to relieve it?
Pain is known to be something that is very hard on the body. It can
weaken the body and make it more difficult for the person to endure it
on the long run, sort of in a cumulative aspect. This is why some
doctors are now open to the idea that it is useless and there is no
reason why one should endure it, whether it's temporary or chronic.
Therefore, they now are more liberal about finding different ways to
aleviate it. They now even have alternative ways in pain clinics in
hospitals such as a little device called Tens that is very similar to
the type of acupuncture that is used on children which sends out a
little electrical current in the muscles to relax them from the stress
accumulation caused by pain.
> Perhaps once the enlightened state has been reached drugs are no
> longer so problematic.(snip)
I believe that there may be many people who are experiencing an
enlightenment process and have already a certain degree of awakening.
But I also believe that very few presently on earth have achieved total
entightenment. My guess, cause only a guess can I make, would be that
these exceptional beings that we may never personnaly encounter no
longer have to worry about dealing with suffering. Being in a human
body, we probably cannot get away without any pain at all until our last
breath, but it probably becomes easy at the level they have attained to
deal with the suffering I would think, if people such as us who are only
at the first steps of the process can already accept suffering to a
certain degree as a personal experience or with others going through it.
> I have heard of yogis taking large amounts of LSD with no effect. If
> you are one with the source of all bliss would ibuprofen make any
> difference? It seems unlikely.
Many stories like this one are going around. Perhaps should we go search
for one of these people who have reached total enlightenment and ask
them rather than speculating about anybodyelses' way of dealing with
things. And once we found them they would probably simply reply: in what
way would it truly help you to know the answer to these questions as you
should be finding these answers within yourself anyway as they are found
along the path and not at the destination, cause the destination is the
path. And this person would probably just turn away laughing and add: I
wish you a lovely journey towards yourself.
Interesting stuff though!
Part of the explanation I have been given concerning pain in its
manifestation during K awakening was comparing it to physical growing
pains some of us have at adolescence. I think that there is much more to
the whole K thing than what we see and know, only a glimpse into a whole
universe in itself. One may become of hypersensitive nature with a super
finely tuned body and senses making one's health more fragile and
delicate in becoming the vehicle of the purpose for which it is called.
The difference with the normal growing pains is that the body is
gradually exposed to different degrees of levels of energy making it
necessary for the body to adapt itself to sort of a new environment each
time, like jetlag or living in higher altitude. And the reason for this
can be for example to be ready for a spiritual experience or spiritual
force one shall be encountering. Hense, being prepared for one's purpose
on a spiritual quest. The pain has it's cause, we may question its
reason to be, but it has not really any reason to be, it simply is. In
some cases we can observe that the nature of the physical ailments that
appear and disappear as quickly and in isolated episodes with symptoms
that are often non-related, make it practicaly impossible for doctors to
make a truly certain diagnosis. They get confused and can sometimes
suspect us of being hypocondriacs. Although the symptoms may leave as
soon as they appear, nevertheless they are "real", often severe and can
really be painful.
We can come to accept pain, and see it as just another experience
without feeling victimized by it or judging it as being just plain bad,
and this however it may hurt, and to see it for how it can allow us to
grow and learn. There may even come a point where one may be able to
feel gratitude for it in a sense instead of hating and despising it.
This may be a way leading to the acceptance of suffering of humankind,
wether it's part of our everyday life ...or not.
Peace, Love, Light and Laughter,
Julie
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