To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/01/03 22:35
Subject: Re: [K-list] Gurus and all that
From: Karolina Lindqvist
On 2003/01/03 22:35, Karolina Lindqvist posted thus to the K-list:
tisdagen den 31 december 2002 17.25 skrev LBra782595 AT_NOSPAM aol.com:
> Sounds like the typical religious heirarchy stuff some teachers get sucked
> into. Even if the Guru has the best of intentions, it's easy to get lost
> in the "delegation of responsibility" issues. Older disciples become
> executives in the organization and, if their not careful, the ego gets in
> the way of progress.
Yes, I have seen it very near. Miraculously enough, I got very close to my
guru, and got the benefit of a lot of personal attention and direction. He
personally helped me in all aspects of my life, not just spiritual. I don't
think that can be expected.
> Shop around, don't just settle on the first one you come to.
Yes, it might be like that. And I have heard the same kind of advice. It just
didn't happen like that for me. I didn't choose him. It just kind of
happened.
There is so much emphasis on the guru, but I think there should be as much
emphasis on the disciple. I have seen a lot of persons who wanted the "best"
guru, but was not really good disciples and never really learned to know
their guru. They never got the benefit or could never receive the benefit.
> I disagree here. If the true goals of both the Guru and disciple is the
> giving and receiving of knowlege then there can be nothing but some degree
> of success. If either has other motivations, then the relationship is
> tainted with ego and degrades.
True. There is always some degree of success. Now if the disciple choose to
throw it away for some other goal.....
> I do think it is a mistake to look for a good teacher who already has a
> large number of "inner circle" disciples. No matter if s/he is
> enlightened, they are still only one person and can only give so much time
> to each disciple. Even if there is only one Guru and one disciple, if the
> the exchange of knowlege is completed, then each has fullfilled their goal.
Agree here too. You will never get near to the guru, and get the personal
benefit if there are many disciples. But then, if a guru takes a liking for
you, it might be of a great benefit, even if s/he has many disciples.
> Charisma is not a requirement for a Guru. It is a natural manifestation in
> an enlightened person, but a Guru who genuinely desires to teach will not
> use charisma to attract other disciples, but rather to motivate the
> disciples he has to deeper understanding.
I somehow think so too. Many persons are running after charismatic persons,
but that is no guarantee the s/he is spiritually "advanced".
> "You must 'un-learn' what you have learned"
> ....................................Ben Kenobi, from the original Star Wars
> movie
How to find insights from a Hollywood commercial product...
> The western analytical mind loves to pigeon-hole information so that is
> readily accessible. The problem with the general attitude of western
> thinking is that they have "their cart in front of their horse".
> Explaining mystical experiences by means of brain chemistry and unhappy
> childhoods is merely looking at symptoms, not the cause of the symptoms.
> The physical body is not the source of the experience, it is the
> manifestation of the experience. The source is MUCH deeper.
good said.
Karolina
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