To: K-list
Recieved: 2002/09/23 12:57
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Ego???
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
On 2002/09/23 12:57, Mystress Angelique Serpent posted thus to the K-list:
At 12:28 PM 22/09/02, Joseph Miller wrote:
> >At 02:52 PM 18/09/02, vijay wrote:
> > >...there is no personality without your ego.
> >
> >If that were true, then all enlightened beings would be very dull, they
> >would all be exactly the same, interchangeable.
>
>Angelique,
>
>No that isn't the case. Enlightend beings have egos, all of them, every last
>one. They TRANSCEND the ego, they don't kill it. The idea of killing an ego
>is some kind of "New Age" ....stuff... that has no basis in any ancient
>system I'm aware of. Or any system (if you want to be extremely charitable
>and call new age stuff a system) prior to the 20th century.
You sure like to pick fights, eh, Joe? :)
First, I said nothing about killing the ego. I did not mention ego
death in any way. Yet, here you are arguing against what I did not say....
hello! What I said and what you heard are different things...
My comment was in reference to the nature-nurture debate about the
source of personality. If it is cultural programming, the karmic persona
then it may well pass or change with Enlightenment... but some aspects of
persona are inborn, part of the DNA. This has been demonstrated with
studies of twins separated at birth. they have similar tastes in food,
music, similar expressive gestures, etc.
Kundalini can alter DNA, but the process of enlightenment makes you more
fully and uniquely yourself. No longer repressed by outside expectations or
the social mask.
Of the disembodied, I have encountered a number of Ascended masters,
ghosts, etc. who would be considered egoless, but they still have
personality. I have encountered ghosts who definitely still have ego, too.
Dying does not automatically end the experience of separation that is how I
define ego.
I think my boa constrictor is probably egoless also, and she has a
distinct personality. Even different trees, rocks and plants have their own
unique persona, tho it may be more of a vibration.
Of course, how "Ego" and "personality" are defined in the individual
lexicon, can be the source of much confusion and disagreement. For
convenience of this list, we define it as the aspect of consciousness that
has fears, experiences limitations and judgments, that eventually goes
into the light... dies. That is not the psychiatric definition or the
dictionary definition. It is a definition of convenience to describe the
experience of Kundalini.
>Since enlightenment is traditional and killing the ego was made up in the
>20th century by God knows who the two don't mix well. Logically they don't
>mix at all.
Well, that was not the topic of my post, but since you are up for a
debate, I would say you are wrong about that. The idea is ancient, only
the terminology is new. Yogananda makes reference to his family attending
his mock-funeral service as part of the rituals of his attaining
realization and becoming a Swami. His old self was dead, and he sings a
song about it in his joy.
North American natives, and many other native cultures worldwide
held/hold a coming of age ritual that involves the death of the child
persona and the birth of the adult. Creation of an ego is necessary for
training and socializing a child to be part of a community, but the adults
understood that they were not separate from the world, "All my relations".
In mythology, the story of the "Heroes Journey" into death and back to
rebirth as a Master or more evolved being, is universal. The enlightenment
rituals of the initiation into the Elysian Mysteries was focused on
enacting the myth of Persephone, death and rebirth. She who died a maiden
and was reborn as Queen of life and death. The Sumerian myth of the Goddess
Inanna's descent into the underworld and death, then rebirth, is as old as
recorded history. Even Christianity is based on the idea of death and
rebirth. From the death and rebirth of Christ as ascended master, to a
zillion "born again" Christians... going back to the death and rebirth of
Osiris.
Many people on this list have experienced ego death... most often, not
sought deliberately, but K-fired. For me, when I do my work, the content of
ego is not mysterious. It shows up as patterns of blocked or static
(unmoving) energy in the body. Old, stored hurts that motivate unconscious
action, karma coming up again and again till it is released. Ego usually
dies in pieces, getting weaker and more transparent with each surrender.
I have known suicidal egos. Some times I encounter someone whose Divine
Beloved is the same gender of the body... this is usually a side effect of
some trauma in childhood. The child ego believed it could not "do life" and
escaped into the unconscious, taking its memories with it, and the
unconscious switches genders as it sends part of itself to be the new ego.
>The fact is a competent teacher in the Eastern tradition will not consider
>taking a student without a solid ego, because when one has a weak ego and
>does work to transcend it those people become mentally unbalanced. They
>must have a strong ego to deal with the Kundalini process, even at the final
>part of the process, enlightenment.
I agree with them, tho I express it differently. FST has a disclaimer,
of necessity:
>I am not a psychiatrist! This course is not recommended for people who are
>mentally ill. If you are mentally ill and awakened, I suggest you seek the
>services of a Jungian psychiatrist. Links to counselling resources are below.
www.fire-serpent.com/fstlink.html
Even so... on this list there are many who are awakened and unbalanced.
Should we shun them, instead of offering compassionate support?
There was a psychiatric book written recently that compared Kundalini
to schizophrenia, simply because both processes involved the erosion and
death of an ineffective ego, and the birth of a new, healthy and whole one.
>Of course the final proof is the eagerness of all people who have "lost
>their ego" to brag at the drop of the hat about how egoless they are. If a
>punk bragging about how many girls he's screwed is an act of ego, and it is
>the act of a sick ego, then bragging about killing/loosing your ego is an
>act of that same completely undead and very much unlost ego.
Yeah, it is like the sketch "Bring out your dead" from Monty Python
and the holy grail.. I hear a small ego voice saying "I'm not dead yet..!"
So, then what of the ego that likes to vent about what other people do,
and misinterpret simple expressions for the purposes of getting into an
argument? Why is your ego so invested in its superiority game? Just
curious...
Blessings...
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http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
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