To: K-list
Recieved: 2002/08/22 07:50
Subject: [K-list] Re: Ida, Pingala debate
From: Joseph Miller
On 2002/08/22 07:50, Joseph Miller posted thus to the K-list:
>I'm going to take on Joe here. IMHO, the text RK Shankar quotes not only
>states the rechanneling of "awareness" into the Shushuma, but certainly
>also implies the merging of the energies of Ida and Pingala with Shushuma.
>
>RK Shankar is speaking from experience, and Joe is not, as far as I have
>been able to observe. People's experiences are IMO what we all learn from
>most.
Hillary,
Since it doesn't happen, that is the merging of Ida & Pingala, as the
moderator has agreed is the case, NO ONE was speaking from experience. If it
doesn't happen it isn't experienced. One may believe it has happened but if
it can't happen and didn't happen it wasn't an experience. How can I say
this with such certainty? I own a dictionary. Experience has to be real,
imagined experience is not real and is not a good basis for anything, except
perhaps a good story, maybe a book, or a movie if one gets really lucky. And
as I said several thousand years of experience shared by millions of people
is worth much much more than one person's imagined experiences.
(Please forgive any misspellings below, I don't have any references
available at the moment.)
>My experience has usually been feeling the energy throughout the body. But
>when I do feel it in the spine, it is in one current only.
K is felt as one current because it is one current. K does not use Ida and
Pingala. Prana uses those nadis.
>This is not to say there may not be separate channels, but that,
>perhaps, the most profound experiences are when the energies from the Ida
>and Pingala merge with the central channel.
The energies in Ida and Pingala, lets call it what is it, prana, can be used
to control sushumna, but they don't merge with it.
There seems to be a total lack of understanding of the interactions of
Kundalini, Prana, and the individual's body and will. Forget the lay out in
the body for a moment, lets use a metaphor that is extremely apt. Think of
the person, his/her body and mind being on one side, Kundalini being on the
other, and Prana being in the middle. The two outside elements, Kundalini
and the individual can only interact, or rather can interact most easily
using the middle element, prana, as the intermediary. You can control prana,
prana can influence Kundalini. Kundalini can influence/control prana and it
can influence or control you.
If you want Kundalini to increase its activity you can do certain practices
to cause that. Even those that center on mantra or mudra or whatever will
almost always include pranayama, the control of prana through breath.
Pranayama is an entire field of study in working with Kundalini and it can
be used to improve the body and mind as well.
Anyone who has worked with animals knows that to get them to learn or
practice some behavior you desire you first need to get their attention and
get them "in the mood" to want to please you. With my dogs cheese or a Milk
Bone works wonders for that purpose. With pranayama balancing it is the
trick. Getting the active and passive in balance. Getting the male and
female, the right and left, the internal facing and external facing,.....
all working in balance. When that happens prana works with you to do your
will, to say calm or excite Kundalini.
How does one work this miracle with prana, so it will work one's will with
Kundalini? How does one get it in balance? There is more than one way. But
the simplest, the easiest, the best, certainly for a non-expert is plain old
alternate nostril breathing (ANB).
How does ANB work? Well if all of those teachers over the last few thousand
years who informed us of the existence of Kundalini knew anything (and if
anyone thinks they didn't know their stuff, what the hell are you doing on
this list because the idea of Kundalini would be nothing but bunk, right)
one might listen to their explanation.
They said it BALANCES Ida and Pingala. By stopping and then starting each
side, Ida and Pingala are alternately activated and deactivated. This brings
them into balance. Since they have such a strong impact on Prana they
balance prana and prepare it for its work. (They give it a Milk Bone in
other words.)
If Ida and Pingala ceased to exist, the statement I was objecting to, and no
Kundalini Master in history has ever said that happens, this control
mechanism, the one taught for thousands of years could not and would not
work. Hence, all of those teachers who taught about Kundalini would have had
all of their students wasting their time trying to perform the impossible.
Logically when those students used this technique and obtained results they
would have been delusional.
So we are left with the choice that thousands of years of students, some of
whom have gone on to enlightenment, some even to be great teachers, have
been delusional and RK Shankar knows more than all of them put together, or
he could possibly be mistaken.
I think you know my vote here. And frankly if "feelings" make anyone think
otherwise they need to analyze the imbalance they have between feelings and
logic. Both are important. If they are in conflict you must analyze why.
>You seem to be unnecessarily on the warpath again, Joe! :))
The role of the Kashatrika is an old and honored one. It has always been
necessary to preserve the dharma and that includs protecting the wisdom of
the ages. On the plains of Kurukshetra Krishna taught Arjna this lesson. It
is one that is seldom honored in today's "feel good, don't think about
things too much" world. That does not make Krishna a liar, it reflects
poorly on today's society and its attitudes.
As I said I have no argument with New Age teachers, as long as they don't
rewrite the teachings of the ancient masters. My debt is to them and to
their teachings, not to "feel good, don't discriminate" trends of the day.
If Mr. Shankar, or anyone, wishes to talk about new age topics I probably
won't respond at all, except to ask a question or for clarification, for my
own education. I have not educated myself on those topics so what is posted
could be the truth or pure bunk, I probably wouldn't know.
Most importantly to me, I have a debt to the tradition. It is never to be
"unnecessarily on the warpath" to do my duty and pay my debts to a tradition
that has so blessed me. As we have discussed off list honor, to self and to
tradition, is a paramount value. To let someone pollute the teachings and
pass that crap along to the hundreds of interested people on this list as
"truth" unchallenged would be without honor. It would not be doing my duty.
It would be dishonoring my debts.
I realize that most on this list are much more touchy-feely than I. I also
realize that practicing traditional values wins me no friends with most of
them. That is sad but if that is the way of things so be it. I must honor
the debt.
> >It is very good to be grateful to the traditional teachers of Wisdom
> >But, you need not seal yourself against other modes of awareness.
>
>Absolutely!
But when your "other modes" produce "results" that conflict with wisdom with
a long history it is at least prudent to admit the possibility that it is
you, and not they, who has made a mistake. Assuming truth matters more than
feeling good about how wise one has become. Or said another way, truth
matters more than emotional masturbation.
Namaste,
Joe
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent/spirit/kindex.htm
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