To: K-list
Recieved: 2002/08/15 14:53
Subject: Re: [K-list] Shifting Consciousness
From: Grant -
On 2002/08/15 14:53, Grant - posted thus to the K-list:
Hello,
Again I'm trying to explain my perspective not offer truth.
I hope that the replies arent as 'angry' as they seemed to me when I first
read over them. Communication is a difficult task.
> I never said there is no point, I said it is a phase that must
>inevitably be transcended.
Then I apologize, and the the misinterpretation is mine. I stated in my
first response "it has great purpose", to which you replied "no, not
really". I took that out of context it seems. I'm sure you can see how.
I completely agree projection is a phase to be transended, but by
transendance I do not imply the cease of projection, the projection only
becomes something completely different... again this is from my perspective.
>yup... but saying it is important and essential... well, those who are
>going through the phase do indeed think so, and often with the
>contradictory righteousness you are expressing.
I don't see any rightesousness in my words, I regret those who read my
replies however, do.
>K. has many phases... but most of the old wise sages recommend not
>attaching to any of the phenomena. Let it pass, and move on. You >waving a
>flag for the astral contradicts that sage advice. Astral realms are >easy
>to
>get stuck in, and too often the result is "Heaven's Gate" suicides or
> >folks
>selling the farm because some astral entity told them armageddon is
> >imminent.
A little below you state that perhaps we're talking about two different
things using the same word. I now believe your right, as the projection I'm
talking of is not a stage of Kundalini energy rising, nor does it occur only
through the arousal of the kundalini. I also was confused when you mentioned
getting stuck in astral realms, suicides, or armageddons. I know nothing of
these things occuring. >I don't understand your explanation of the astral realm as a land of
>fantisful battles of good and evil... when I speak of astral projection I
>mean to include all of the higher planes of projection including but not
>limited to the astral planes.
>Then you are not speaking of astral projection, our disagreement comes
>of your misusing terminology. Astral refers to the universe of the >power
>chakra. The issues of the power chakra are about good and evil, free >will
>and Divine will, life energy, power, hierarchies, boundaries... etc. >It is
>the realm of ghosts and the kind of unworthy wanna be spirit guides >that
>will give you fancy names and labels, tell you of some >esoteric "destiny"
>in an effort to seduce you into giving your power away to their >agenda. It
>is a phase, and most everyone who is in the phase will be absolutely
>convinced of the truth and importance of whatever roleplay the entities
>calling themselves "guides" are asking of them... but it is not Truth.
Then I am not speaking of astral projection? our disagreement comes of my
misusing terminology?
Mystress... why do you come to the conclusion that it is I who is not
speaking of astral projection, and that it is I who causes the disagreement,
by my apparent misuse of terminology?
You are quick to give blame and burden to me, and I am not initiating some
attack here. Would it not be better to simply say "we are talking of two
different things". Why is it my burden to carry, as you are the knowing one?>The chakras of the heart and above, there is no time or space, so there
>can be no projecting anything anywhere. We may experience it as
> >projection,
>like attaining the Witness by moving your consciousness above your >head...
>but it is not the same as the dreamworlds of the astral. Witness is >seeing
>through the eyes of the Self. No judgments.
When your only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.
I agree with your above statements. My terminology came from the fact that I
was explaning in terms of projection, and higher projection. You are
attempting to explain the same concept in terms of projecting, and not
needing projection. Yet they are the same explanation.> Spoken like someone caught in the phase. Good and evil are >judgments
>of ego. Ego is not dharma. We judge good and evil, from the >perspectives
>of
>the chakras below the heart. Above the heart, All is love, all is >Divine.
>No evil, no possibility of evil.
Im sorry I appear to be caught in a phase- if I am it's to my benifit that I
may drink of your wisdom.
However I believe this is a misinterpretation of my letters, my origional
response was attempting to state that evil does not exist, and neither does
its contrast (good).
I am not implying that one should induldge completely in the lower astral
(as I interpreted it) I only want to make it's existance known to those who
have read my letters.
> I am the list Mystress, those who have been on the list, know how
> >often
>I have moved to bump someone past the psychosis caused by attachment to
>astral games and astral guidance. Saviors coming on the list, all
> >righteous
>and carrying a bunch of fancy titles their astral guides gave them in
> >order
>to flatter them into giving their power away... so caught up in the
>illusion that it takes a Zen stick whacking to get them past it. They
> >thank
>me afterwards... when they have snapped out of it.
This definately pointed towards the fact that we are discussing two
different notions. You are explaining to me, the problems of power games as
some one who is stuck in the third chakra? Is this correct? You have termed
this astral or astral projection, or associated the astral or lower astral
with these third chakra problems. I am not sure where you have learned this
terminology but it is vastly different from my own.> I don't believe in learning. Most of the stuff we think we have
>"learned" are simply attachments, that must inevitably surrendered >later.
>We grow up in school, we think life is about "learning". Life is about
>experiences. On a soul level, you already know everything there is to
> >know.
>You forgot it, so you could come here, experience separation and
>individuality, and love.
"so you could come here, experience separation and
individuality, and love."
or in a different set of words;
"so you could come here, and learn of separation and
individuality, and love."> Heh... what makes you think so? That is your illusion. Surrender >the
>pilgrimage, attain realization.
This is not meant to be offensive to you (!) But~ ...
Did you not say that nothing and no one could do this?Anyways, now that perhaps we are talking of different truths, we can leave
it at that- seperate, but truths.
Thanks,
-Grant
________
-"Your path is mine."_____________
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent/spirit/kindex.htm
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