To: K-list
Recieved: 2002/08/15 13:30
Subject: Re: [K-list] Shifting Consciousness
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
On 2002/08/15 13:30, Mystress Angelique Serpent posted thus to the K-list:
At 12:16 PM 15/08/02, Grant - wrote:
>--
>No, not really. It is a game. The astral realms are a schoolroom where
>the issues of good and evil, free will and divine will are played out. The
>issues of the power chakra. Fascination with them is a phase of K., that is
>eventually and inevitably transcended. It can be pleasant for those with
>low self esteem to be told by a lot of astral beings that they are special
>and important in the war of good and evil, yadda yadda... a nice ego
>fix,... but it is not real.
>--
>
>I disagree in earnest,
You say you disagree, then you express agreement.>It is as real / illusionary as the world we see with our eyes and touch with
>our fingers.
Yes.
> Its experience, wisdom and learning from a new plane of
>awareness.
A schoolroom.
> Candy for the consciousness.
Game. Candy. What the difference?
> To say that there is no point in
>experiencing this for yourself is to downplay the importance of experiencing
>life in the flesh as well.
I never said there is no point, I said it is a phase that must
inevitably be transcended.
>Everything has purpose my friend... nothing is out of place in this world.
yup... but saying it is important and essential... well, those who are
going through the phase do indeed think so, and often with the
contradictory righteousness you are expressing.
>There are understandings that you can come to from experience in the other
>planes that serve to the ever closer movement towards realization.
K. has many phases... but most of the old wise sages recommend not
attaching to any of the phenomena. Let it pass, and move on. You waving a
flag for the astral contradicts that sage advice. Astral realms are easy to
get stuck in, and too often the result is "Heaven's Gate" suicides or folks
selling the farm because some astral entity told them armageddon is imminent.
>I don't understand your explanation of the astral realm as a land of
>fantisful battles of good and evil... when I speak of astral projection I
>mean to include all of the higher planes of projection including but not
>limited to the astral planes.
Then you are not speaking of astral projection, our disagreement comes
of your misusing terminology. Astral refers to the universe of the power
chakra. The issues of the power chakra are about good and evil, free will
and Divine will, life energy, power, hierarchies, boundaries... etc. It is
the realm of ghosts and the kind of unworthy wanna be spirit guides that
will give you fancy names and labels, tell you of some esoteric "destiny"
in an effort to seduce you into giving your power away to their agenda. It
is a phase, and most everyone who is in the phase will be absolutely
convinced of the truth and importance of whatever roleplay the entities
calling themselves "guides" are asking of them... but it is not Truth.
The chakras of the heart and above, there is no time or space, so there
can be no projecting anything anywhere. We may experience it as projection,
like attaining the Witness by moving your consciousness above your head...
but it is not the same as the dreamworlds of the astral. Witness is seeing
through the eyes of the Self. No judgments.
>Projection into the lower astral has the same paths as a life in the flesh.
>It can be used to draw distinguishing lines between good and evil (which is
>done often here is it not?)
Spoken like someone caught in the phase. Good and evil are judgments
of ego. Ego is not dharma. We judge good and evil, from the perspectives of
the chakras below the heart. Above the heart, All is love, all is Divine.
No evil, no possibility of evil.
On the tree of life, the Kaballah is pyramid shaped. Good and evil are
distinct and separate at the bottom of the tree, but at the top is the
Godhead, nonduality. No separation. Love is All.
If you are on the bottom of the tree, or in the middle playing astral
games, then you may be very righteous about your judgments of good and
evil, very devoted to whatever role or "detiny" the "guides" cast you in...
but you will inevitably transcend it. If you get attached to the importance
of the astral games, as you are promoting, then the transcendence will
simply take that much longer, and be so much bumpier as your life energy is
devoted to playing the game.
I am the list Mystress, those who have been on the list, know how often
I have moved to bump someone past the psychosis caused by attachment to
astral games and astral guidance. Saviors coming on the list, all righteous
and carrying a bunch of fancy titles their astral guides gave them in order
to flatter them into giving their power away... so caught up in the
illusion that it takes a Zen stick whacking to get them past it. They thank
me afterwards... when they have snapped out of it.
>and to entertain the mental battles that come as
>a result of this imaginary line. It can also be used as a place of higher
>learning. I venture to say that most if not everyone of us on this list
>including yourself, has some purpose in higher learning and realization.
I don't believe in learning. Most of the stuff we think we have
"learned" are simply attachments, that must inevitably surrendered later.
We grow up in school, we think life is about "learning". Life is about
experiences. On a soul level, you already know everything there is to know.
You forgot it, so you could come here, experience separation and
individuality, and love.
>So yes, the astral planes may be a canvas for us to create fantisful things
>and marvel at their splendor, but then for some that is what the physical
>worlds are for as well. Yes there exists good and evil in astral and
>physical,
No. Transcend, and you will find there is no evil in the physical. All
is love, as above, so below. You cannot see it, from the place you are
at... but eventually, you will.
>but within the astral that boundry has become thin and drawn out,
>and hardly recognizable. This thin line dissapates as one moves upward.
Astral is all about boundaries. It is the power chakra that will tell
you if your energy is being fed on, if your boundaries are not being
respected, and whether your actions are karma or dharma.
>These realms of existance in my opinion should not be branded a phase of K
>or a temporary fascination. There is great purpose in them for those who
>would venture to experience it and eat of its fruits.
and hazards too. Perhaps those who were bumped out of their psychosis
will speak up about this.
>If you've not ventured to project because of it's seeming unimportance, I
>implore you to reconsider. The use of words and symbols to explain the
>importance of what can be learned there is disparingly immpossible.
You cannot really see me, you know... I am not speaking of this
because I do not know about it, but rather because I drank at that well for
many years.
>One last analogy if by chance you're still reading- when you say there is no
>purpose to exploring the higher realms, in truth you're right.
I never said that. You are projecting your limiting beliefs onto me.
Have them back.
> But perhaps
>not in the way most would interperate it. The reason for this, is that in a
>sense there is no purpose to self-realization or higher learning because we
>are all the devine. We are godself whether or not we allow ourselves to see
>or accept that.
Yes.
>But that should not detere everyone on this list or anyone else from their
>path of understanding.
Nothing and no-one can do that.
>It would be a bitter moment of illusory indeed if all us wanderlings threw
>away our spiritual pilgrimidge in light of such words.
Heh... what makes you think so? That is your illusion. Surrender the
pilgrimage, attain realization.
Blessings...
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