To: K-list
Recieved: 2002/08/07 07:32
Subject: [K-list] Introduction from Bhavin Desai
From: Bhavin Desai
On 2002/08/07 07:32, Bhavin Desai posted thus to the K-list:
Hari Om,
As a form of personal introduction to this group, I am enclosing some email
information below about some of my Yogic experiences.
I have practiced Yoga since around the age of 8 and teaching since 16 (I
will be 40 in 4 weeks time) in the UK.
Due to the original size of this, I have cut out non-essential details (eg
headers, footers, etc).
There are 13 sections in total. You may go straight to section 13 if you
so wish.
If you have any comments, suggestions, guidance or advice then I will be
interested to receive them.
Personal or group posts regarding this information are very welcome.
Namaste.
Bhavin.
----------
### Section 1. - Notes
A "Mudra" is a symbolic gesture or action that gives physical expression to
an inner state.
Any use of the term Dhenu Mudra below is incorrect. The correct term is
Surya Mudra.
Text within "<<<" and ">>>" is from other people.
### Section 2. - 13 August 2001
Hari Om,
What is the significance of Dhenu (also called Surya and Ravi) Mudra when
it happens automatically and without conscious effort during meditation,
pranayama, or even asana? Neti, Nauli, Bhastrika, and spinal chord
"crocodile" exercises regularly cause strong automatic Dhenu Mudra of both
hands. Recently, Dhenu Mudra has also occurred at random without
expectation and without having done any recent Yoga practice to cause it.
What does the above indicate? What should I do?
Thank you for your consideration.
### Section 3. - 22 August 2001
By Dhenu (also called Surya and Ravi) Mudra I mean that both hands are open
with the right (left) ring finger and right (left) thumb tightly touching
each other, folded and locked into the centre of the right (left) palm,
with the other three right (left) hand fingers fully extended. Note that
this is not the Dhenu Mudra where the hands are joined and fingers
inter-linked.
In Dhenu Mudra the flow of energy is strong, soft, silent, smooth, and
extremely peaceful.
The first time I experienced Dhenu Mudra was during the final year of my
MPhil degree in Mathematical Logic, which was around 1986-1987 at
Nottingham University in the UK. (I have been practising Yoga since before
1970.) The original physical position for Dhenu Mudra was Padmasana (Lotus
Seat) with the hands placed on the knees and palms facing upwards. At that
time I had been doing mantra meditation for about an hour, in addition to
my daily hour of Yoga (exercises, breathing, cleansing, etc). Another
normal position for Dhenu Mudra is standing up with the hands in front of
the body, palms facing forwards, in line with the chest and below shoulder
level.
Dhenu Mudra has been happening naturally, automatically and regularly for
many years, and recently has become stronger and more frequent (several
times a day).
Any of the following Yoga activities induce or generate Dhenu Mudra:
Neti, Nauli and other Kriya
Bhastrika and other Pranayama
Spinal Chord ("Crocodile") Exercises
Mantra and other Meditation
Nature (lake, mountain, forest, river, etc)
Inspiration from Movies, Music, Mathematics...
Dhenu Mudra can also occur randomly, without any apparent cause, and at any
time, place, or position. It occurs like an unconscious reflex action. If
I attempt to get out of it by consciously releasing or shaking my fingers
and hands then it just returns when my attention is elsewhere! Dhenu Mudra
can easily last over an hour, without fatigue and without effort. It's
great.
### Section 4. - 8 October 2001
You may be interested in the following. Summary of Sunday morning,
07/10/2001:
09:00-09:30 Rubber Cord Neti Kriya and Air Neti Kriya
09:30-10:00 Uddiyana Bandha and Nauli Kriya
10:00-10:30 Bhastrika, & other Pranayama
10:30-11:00 Spinal Chord "Crocodile" Exercises
11:00-12:00 Meditation (using 10 different Arti's on CD)
That may not be too interesting in itself, but from 09:15 to about 13:00
(while doing the above) there was very strong, natural and automatic Surya
Mudra. After that, 30 minutes of Anjali Mudra. It was wonderful,
excellent, amazing, great, outstanding, marvellous, fabulous, spectacular,
superb, pleasant, relaxing, extraordinary, energising, astonishing,
remarkable, amazing, fantastic, spontaneous, awesome and very very
peaceful.
There was no effort required for Surya Mudra and it could have lasted even
longer. Associated with Surya Mudra was a gentle vibration of the first
and middle fingers, and also a gentle vibration of the tongue. The mind
was relaxed, calm, and peaceful.
### Section 5. - 12 October 2001
[This is an advanced topic and I realise that this kind of personal
experience is perhaps private and should be kept secret. However, it has
been kept secret for about 15 years! I really need to know the next
step(s). I have also had other Yoga experiences (one example is Chakra
purification & activation). I have been a student since 8 years old, ie
for over 30 years. I have been teaching for over 20 years. My teachers
are Jack Boulton and John More of United Kingdom. Their teacher is
Himalayan Yoga Maharishi Swami Dev Murti Ji of India.]
I have seen Surya Mudra and other Mudras in classical Indian sculptures &
statues. Therefore, there must be some major significance.
I have described these types of experiences to several other Yoga,
meditation, philosophy, theology teachers, and also to teachers of Tai Chi,
Kung Fu, Karate, Ninjutsu, Aikido, Kendo, etc. However no one that I know
(except Swami Dev Murti Ji in India, and I live in the UK) seems to know
what is happening or what to do next.
### Section 6. - 18 October 2001
<<< From hotsauce131ATnospamhotmail.com (chili)
I would suggest not to be too sidetracked by this...try not to let this
become an obstacle...it is not the goal...if it's there fine, if not
fine...rather use it to your advantage...30 years of practice, you're not a
child anymore, quit going outside yourself for the answers...trust
yourself, relax...I checked out the site you suggested...it appears
transcending duality is your goal...union...perhaps you could use this to
assist in delving deeper into this issue....or you can get attached to it
and construct another obstacle to get stuck on.
>>>
I have no attachment to either the Mudra process nor the goal. I do not
consider it a goal in itself, nor a distraction, nor an obstacle.
The Mudra (and other) experiences are a natural consequence of Yoga (and
similar) practices. They occur completely automatically without any
knowledge, control, or intention on my part. They occur within a few
minutes of starting meditation, and sometimes occur spontaneously outside
the context of meditation. The first few times that Surya Mudra occurred,
in 1986, I did not even know what it was nor what it was called. Only
later, I saw it in a book on Hinduism, and only recently on a classical
Indian carving. (I am Indian and Hindu.)
I was hoping that other people with related experiences would be able to
provide additional guidance, advice, suggestions, or comments.
### Section 7. - 18 October 2001
<<< From shabdATnospamhotmail.com (Michael Martin)
I don't think you clearly wrote what your goal is. I'm a teacher of Surat
Shabd Yoga, Sant Mat, or the Path of the Masters. There are five main
stages, or levels of consciousness, in Sant Mat. The Supreme Being is at
the fifth stage, known as Sach Khand, or True Home.
Starting from the physical plane, our first goal is to reach the Astral
Plane, which is the first stage in Sant Mat. By practicing Simran, i.e.
repetition of the Guru's Mantra, we can cross the starry sky, sun, and
moon, pass through the tunnel, i.e. Sushamna Vein, and then we can meet the
Astral (Radiant) Form of the Sat Guru (True Master). The Master then takes
us up stage by stage to the Supreme Being, by means of his Shabd Form
(Sound and Light Form).
Sant Mat teaches that there is no necessity to be involved with lower
chakras. We can start right from the third eye center, and go upwards from
there. Our object is to "forget," the physical body, and function in the
Astral Body.
You wrote that you had a good experience, and your mind was at peace.
Actually, mind will not come under total control, until we cross the second
stage, and go beyond mind and maya. If we get some peace, here and there,
it is nice, but it doesn't mean that we have the mind under control. Mind
will be totally controlled, when it has been taken to its home in the third
stage. Mind has been created by the Shabd, Nam, or Holy Spirit, of the
third stage. It will find complete peace there, when it merges into the
Shabd.
We can get peace in the Pindi Mind, when it merges into the Shabd of the
Astral Plane. The Andi Mind will get peace, when it merges into the Shabd
of the Universal Mind, Trikuti, or Brahmanda Plane. So, we get more and
more peace, as we progress upwards. I recommend to follow a Sat Guru.
>>>
During meditation, and once Surya Mudra has been established, I have an
extra experience as follows. When I breathe in I feel a cool sensation on
the Third Eye site. When I breathe out I feel a warm sensation on the
Third Eye site.
One interesting point: when I was visiting Swami Dev Murti Ji (my teachers'
teacher) in India during December 2000, I asked him about Surya Mudra and
his response was "Your time is coming". My teachers (Jack Boulton and John
More) died over 10 years ago and I only get to physically see my Grand
Master when I visit India. (I am Indian and Hindu, living in the UK.)
### Section 8. - 17 January 2002
I have a specific question about Surya Mudra. During Yoga practice (which
covers exercise, breathing, meditation, cleansing, purification,
relaxation, etc), I have found that Surya Mudra occurs naturally,
automatically, on both hands, and without any effort. It can easily last
an hour. The flow of energy during Surya Mudra is strong, soft, silent,
smooth, energising, and extremely peaceful. Recently, it has become more
powerful and more frequent, and it has been happening even outside Yoga
practice, eg at work, or shopping, or sport, etc.
<<< From SJSKhalsaATnospamaol.com
Sun mudra is directing healing energy inwardly. The fire invigorating the
sun into your earth There is no problem with the practice of this mudra,
it is said to reduce body fat. I have not thought of ameditation with this
mudra. The Smiling Buddha meditation is on <A HREF
="http://kundaliniyoga.info">Kundaliniyoga.info </A> It would be good to
practice. The breath and meditation provide for the flow of energy after
it is generated. Try the Mudra to please the mind to allow yourself to
relax it.
>>>
### Section 9. - 21 January 2002
Regarding Surya Mudra, Swami Dev Murti Ji (my teachers' teacher) sent to me
a book called Abhinaya Darpanam, which describes the mudras used in
classical Indian dance. The mudras are associated with deities. For
example, regarding some of the mudras that happen to me automatically:
Vishnu standing, both hands with Surya Mudra.
Indra standing, both hands with Surya Mudra and arms crossed
over the chest.
Ganesh sitting thumb and index fingers joined, other fingers
closed, hands on thighs.
Swami Ji's view was that I should let any such events happen naturally and
enjoy the experience. The mudras also finish naturally in the sense that
after 2 or 3 hours they "go away" and any intentional holding of the mudra
does not have the same effect or feeling.
Regarding my involuntary experiences of Surya Mudra, I think that I am just
starting on something significant, but I have not yet completed it.
<<< From SJSKhalsaATnospamaol.com
I agree, I still think you would benifit from that meditation and it would
open the way for further growth
>>>
### Section 10. - 15 February 2002
I am looking for further information and possible explanation of the
following experience.
During my yoga practices, (including exercises, breathing, relaxation,
meditation, purification, cleansing, etc) my hands often go into "Surya
Mudra". This is where the right ring finger and right thumb are tightly
touching each other, folded and locked into the centre of the right palm,
with the other three right hand fingers fully extended. Similarly for the
left hand.
I have found that Surya Mudra occurs naturally, automatically, on both
hands, and without any effort. It can easily last an hour. The flow of
energy during Surya Mudra is strong, soft, silent, smooth, and extremely
peaceful. Recently, it has become more powerful and more frequent, and it
has been happening even outside Yoga practice, eg at work, or shopping, or
sport, etc.
My grand teacher's view was that I should let any such event happen
naturally and enjoy the experience. These mudra sessions also finish
naturally in the sense that after 2 or 3 hours they "go away" and any
intentional holding of the mudra does not have the same effect or feeling.
<<< From Dennis Wier
Each repetition of a mantra (trance generating loop), or even a kriya, and
certainly pranayama or asana can each create a trance. Each of these loops
(you can number and list them) produces a specific trance. Depending on the
number of elements in each loop as well as the content and the number of
times the loop is repeated, a trance wyrd (trance force) is created of a
certain magnitude. Combinations of various trances enhance the trance wyrd
- that is, the magnitude of the trance wyrd is increased.
The surya mudra is only one natural effect of such wyrds. There are many
other natural effects which you may or may not have noticed. The flow of
energy you mentioned is also an effect of the wyrd.
One could observe how modulating or slightly changing the content of a
single loop creates changes in the wyrd. A steady mind is needed for this
observation.
>>>
### Section 11. - 22 February 2002
Thank you for your reply. I am impressed by the abstraction and elegance of
your characterisation of trance. The Trance Model article on your website
is excellent.
In addition to the Surya Mudra described in my first message, I have also
experienced other types of Mudra (eg Gnana, Mrigi, etc), other energy
effects (trembling/vibration of the tongue, fingers, third eye, etc), and
other results. These all occur naturally and automatically from the
practice of Yoga. This is consistent with the description in your response.
* What are the deeper benefits of trance? That is, why should anyone
want to get into trance?
* What are the next (ie intermediate & advanced) steps after having
learnt and put into practice the basic trance principles?
* Are there any special techniques (eg breathing, posture, etc) to get
more powerful trances? (And what are the higher level benefits?)
Thank you in advance for your advice.
<<< From Dennis Wier
Thanks for your kind words.
Regarding the benefits of trance per se - the main benefit is to enable the
efficient change of a cognitive function. That said, what might be
'efficient' might not necessarily be either socially or psychologically
beneficial. Or it might be fantastically beneficial. Whether it is or not
is independent from how trance works.
The main reason - ultimately - for practicing some form of trance is to
become proficient in creating and terminating trance in a conscious way.
The unconscious or inadvertent or manipulated creation of trance can create
addictions, psychosis and other problems. Conscious creation of trance -
such as with a meditation practice - can eventually give you the skills you
need to create very powerful trance wyrds for healing, etc. Siddhis, in
other words.
As to specific techniques - of course, there are many techniques implied by
the trance model. I would say that the most important technique to develop
is to be aware of what you do to create or terminate a trance. Otherwise it
is quite individual.
>>>
### Section 12. - 20 March 2002
Surya Mudra is still occurring for me during any type of Yoga activity such
as exercise, breathing, mantra, meditation, kriya, etc. Sometimes Surya
Mudra happens spontaneously and randomly even if I have not specifically
been doing anything in particular. That is, the particular unique flow of
energy in the gross and light bodies which causes Surya Mudra can happen
completely naturally without conscious effort. Gyan and Mrigi Mudra occur
occasionally but only on the left hand (the right hand only has Surya
Mudra, never any other Mudra).
### 13. - 7 August 2002
Summary of events during intentional (and even spontaneous) Yoga and
Meditation:
* Everything occurs naturally and automatically.
* Surya Mudra is very strong on both hands.
* There is a gentle vibration of the fingers.
* There is a gentle vibration of the tongue.
* There is a gentle vibration of the head.
* There is some activity at the third eye.
* The whole body melts and relaxes.
* No specific effort is required.
* Energy swells/inflates the whole body.
* Energy currents often rush through the body.
* There is mental happiness, peace and relaxation.
* There is no distinction between 5 minutes or 60 minutes.
* There is full consciousness (so far) regarding the entire process.
It is a majestic, momentous, and inspiring experience.
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