To: K-list
Recieved: 2002/05/21 20:26
Subject: [K-list] Fw: :) Let's be real with each other
From: Susan
On 2002/05/21 20:26, Susan posted thus to the K-list:
erik,
This would be the third time I passed your message onto the list...
It seems to me you don't have any respect for me and therefore for what I
write if you can't even take care of your own simple member email
responsibilities.
I see only from you the defending of your position to your right to live as
you wish and the continued wish to keep arguing for what you have.
Please keep what you have and live the way you have chosen. I don't want it
nor do I want to further engage you in mind games defending your position..
You have already made your mind up about what kind of state you want to live
in and the rightness of it for you. It is not an appropriate state or even
attractive for me. It does not serve me to serve you in validating your
position in debate at my expense of time and energy.
There are too many other people who can genuinely benefit from what I can
share with them.
That is my choice to make.
Susan
----- Original Message -----
From: "bhutanbodhi" <bhutanbodhiATnospamyahoo.com>
To: "lionessbleu1" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: :) Let's be real with each other
> Hi blue one ~);
>
> sorry for the delay...
>
> > So there is no god/dess...true there isn't...so what are you gonna
> > call It?...I think the Tao would be a good idea. It is easier for
> > people to relate, in my experience, to the archetypes of god and
> > goddess and the languaging that goes with it. It is also more fun.
>
> Well, call IT what you want, it still becomes a word that results in
> associations to form. And for those who have come to an
> understanding
> about archetypes and the problems that they can cause along a
> spiritual path maybe be harmful or helpful, depends where you are on
> the path. One could call IT 'within the currents of space/time'.
> But
> then that just becomes a recursive defenition for IT or what ever
> word
> you have associated to IT.
>
> > >
> > > > I guess you would want to make love to an artificial woman, less
> > > than
> > > > authentic, not genuine...an extension of your projections? A
> real
> > > > woman defined by me is emotionally healthy...more than just the
> > > > environmental 3D meat suit that she inhabits.
> > >
> > > As long as she loved me, i loved her, we'd be able to 'make love'.
> > > I'm not sure i've ever met a any "emotionally healthy" women yet.
>
> I
> > > may have and not got a chance to see if they were emotionally
> > healthy.
> >
> > How would you define "emotionally healthy" in your context?
>
> Well, what is your defenition?
>
> Mine would fall into the category of a fully and completely awakened
> and enlightened woman, or one who has a full understanding of how and
> why her emotional make-up is and does what she can to work with the
> principles of her elements of her character, to transcend the
> "unhealthy" aspects of that.
> > > Well, i would be interested in knowing what the specific person
> > > wanted. Not from her friends and other ego structured ideals.
> >
> > Generally, women tend to want the same qualities in a partner...the
> > other stuff is just frosting open to the design of personal
> > preference.
>
> Yes, they look for someone that is compatible, that has the same
> aspirations, desires, and background, and also one that feels that
> there is attraction too. Am I off track with that? Of coarse that
> is
> my ego clinging to such ideas and motivating my fingures to type.
> > I am glad you know you can't be saved.
>
> What do you mean by "saved"? Is it in the sense of my suffering will
> be 'liberated'?
>
> >The irony is many people
> >think
> > you can be.
>
> Yes, i'm aware of that, like the idea that 'work will set me free'
> seems to be pretty popular in the west. As well as, other groups
> like
> religious organizations, who are still 'out there' trying to save
> souls...i'm just remembering an article in the paper almost a year
> ago
> about mormons out to save souls in buddhist mongolia later year, with
> an article bellow it discussing prs. bushs video taped message to the
> knights of columbus which just so happened to be 119 years old in
> either august or july.
> >So many do we now have a name for them: "rescuers". In a
> > larger sense there can be no victims without rescuers or rescuers
> > without victims.
>
> Could that principle be applied to terrorism? and some individuals
> ideals that their way will 'save' those afflicted from terrorism?
>
> >In your situation right now the government would be
> > your closest thing to a rescuer. Nothing bad or wrong about it. We
> > can all use a helping hand now and then. Actually, if you want a
> > helping hand all your life...go for it and live within the
> > limitations and privileges that gives you.
>
> WEll, i've been on and off welfare for almost 10 years, last year
> marked the first time i didn't qualify due to property issues, i'll
> be
> applying again soon, to see what happens.
> > This isn't about your real biological mother but an archetype that
> > becomes manifested in humans.. I didn't say you had an actual
> > smell...I said repellant magic.
>
> well, smell could be used as a form of magick can i not?
> though my blue clothes are slowly getting stinky again...
> and my blue hat is getting dirty.
>
> >Its an energy state. In other
> > people's eyes you may be a magic magnet for attracting a particular
> > kind of people in your life. Looking at your own life based on your
> > results you can see what kind of "magic" is working in your life.
>
> Well, i'm pretty good at vibrationally repelling everything and
> everyone, though i try to maintain a comfortable state, my tendency
> to
> be aloof in situations is still prevalent, usually due to an
> understanding that most people will not get what i say, and be to
> judgemental.
>
> > Pointing to how other people have screwed up their interpretation
> of
> > these examples does not negate the integrity or validity of the
> > original examples.
>
> oh i'm aware of that, but please dont' point the fingure at me please.
>
> > Blaming someone because they fail to live up to
> > the power of the intent of the example is self defeating and a
> straw
> > man argument.
>
> No, i'm not blaming but i'm blaming, i'm doing both, i trying to
> expose a wound so that people don't slip back into the stupidity that
> it creates. I see no integrety in Christianity. Until i can see
> that
> they accurately perscribe physical body practices that lead to
> specific results (ie; like in eastern traditions) and go into the
> factors of conditioning. I will consider examining it further. I
> mean lets look at the history of indigenous cultures to find out how
> the Church treated them? Is calling them Savages an act of
> compassion? Now the church, is in a sticky situation right now in
> many areas of the world, why is that? Also i'm aware of changes in
> christianity too, such as the references to the bread, once mentioned
> Carl Jung, and you can fing the recipee somewhere on a c.d. in german.
> > The point is what do * you* do with these
> > examples...not someone else.
>
> True, i don't do anything with christianity but shit on it most of
> the time. Why, i'm tired of being shit on by christians telling that
> i have to live my life according to thier rules. Please refer to the
> laws of any government that uses the bible.
>
> > If you know this is a transitory phase...then great. For those who
> > point to situations that keep them ground down by the "man" there
> are
> > many who use that as an opportunity to move to a higher way of
> living.
> What do you mean by transitory phase? And what do you mean by a
> 'higher way of living'?
> > A certificate of what? Mastership? There aren't any. The way you
> live
> > your life and the results that you manifest is the testimony to a
> > life lived in mastery. Are you living a life that exemplifies
> > mastery? If you can't pay the rent and feed your children...is that
> a
> > spirtual master? Mastership is about balance and moderation.
>
> WEll, try telling that to a Master Mason or someone on that path, if
> you can find one! Or someone on their way to a master degree in what
> ever field of study they are paying for. What about the dalai lama,
> do you consider him to be a spiritual master? How was he defined and
> recognized? Or Krishnamurti? I'm curious to know when Ta-Mo's gonna
> show up, personally. He'll certain be shaking things up...and same
> with Bagwan Shree Rajneesh, wonder when he'll return and be
> recognized.
> > Somethings are difficult to understand and always will be to the
> > rational, conscious mind. I have quit trying to explain or make
> > sense about the powerful ecstasy that flows inside of me. It just
> >is.
>
> the presense is just there, how ever, there are different levels to
> the energy, different locations different consciousnesses associated
> to the respective 'vibes'.
> > Here is where it gets interesting. You feel you must work for what
> > you deserve? What do you think you deserve?
>
> To be able to breath FRESH AIR, and have access to clean drinking
> water...For Starters, quality health care and access to all available
> kinds of care with discrimination because of any kind of background
> issues.
>
> > And for Quality? Shit is still shit no matter how pretty you make
> it
> > up and share it with others. I would rather give you beauty and
> have
> > you improve on that. Why do you think you only deserve to be given
> > shit to work with?
>
> Fertillizer, and the chance to change the negative view of whatever
> object that may be grasped into a more harmonius view.
>
> >Why did you choose those particular words? If
> >this
> > is not so...how do you explain the realities of your life?
>
> The realities of my life are not simple, there are aspects that are
> harsh realities, and then there are the relatively calm views that
> keep me from going over board and loosing it (projecting negativity
> outwards). I'm still working on not being to negative about myself
> too, that's a hard aspect of conditioning to get over).
> > So let's pretend you do have that right...would you still be
> homeless
> > if you have that right?
>
> Well, that is purely subjective and cannot be argued, for i'd be only
> messing around with 'what ifs' which would not have any benefit for
> arguement sake. I will say that being raided for growing pot 2 1/2
> years ago gave me enough subjective knowledge on how the police like
> to work when the don't have a warrant! Fortunately the plants were
> gone 3 days before they showed up and the only spot they didn't
> search
> was my freezer which had 5 grams of psilocybin mushrooms just sitting
> ontop of the frozen veggies!
>
> > > Well, i'm still trying to figure what the Tao is. After that,
> maybe
> > > i'll move on to other things, maybe steal that secret cup from the
> > > templars and see if i can drink from it, if it doesn't have any
> > holes
> > > in it by now. After that, maybe write a book about how i tried to
> > > drink from a cup with holes in it that some secret group had
> hidding
> > > since 750 a.d.!
>
> THIS WHOLE STATEMENT WAS A JOKE.
>
> > You can't figure out the Tao. If you do it is not the Tao.
> Escaping
> > into humor is one way you cover up the hurt.
>
> Facing reality can be pretty frightening too, but creating humor is
> also a form of healing and comfort, i don't escape into humor, though
> if is a substitute for anger...BRING IT ON.
> > >
> > > Funny you mention free will, because it has been a concept that
> has
> > > been a little foggy for me. I don't have the free will to do
> lots
> > of
> > > things, sorry, if i was a status Native, then my choices are a bit
> > > better. But free will, sounds like a masonic (free masons not to
> > > be confused with regular masonry) term, why? I can't go to school
> > > where i will to, though i have free will to choose where i can go,
> > > not
> > > where i'm accepted. I can will myself to go to a grocery store
> but
> > i
> > > have no free will, when it come to purchasing power. The Universe
> > > isn't free either, neither are the fruits it provides us for our
> > > survival, well, some are, you just gotta find them.
> >
> > It is my basic belief..and beliefs are just my own personal b.s.
> > (belief system) that all have the right of free will...to make any
> > choice that we want. If I didn't have that belief...you and I
> > wouldn't be talking about anything here...and I wouldn't be on this
> > list. You have to decide for yourself whether free will operates in
> > this universe or are we are all victims of unchanging fate.
>
> That is a dualistic of reality, it's not about either or, it's about
> what works, and also depends on one's own understanding of reality,
> subjective reality that is. Objective reality is fake, it's like
> reading up on burning your hand by fire, or placing your hand in
> fire.
> There is going to be two different understanding, mind you the
> interesting thing about objective understanding is taht the language
> that you perceive the experience to be, may be the same as the
> subjective understanding.
>
> > That is
> > one of the basic tasks one must accomplish on the way to being self-
> > actualized.
> >
> > The life you live now is a result of you exercising your right of
> > free will. In that right you made personal decisions (mostly in an
> > unconscious, unaware state) along the way which are manifesting in
> > your life right now. Those decisions have consequences .There is
> > often a time duration until the consequences of those decisions are
> > played out. In the meantime, start making conscious decisions on
> > living your life that take you closer to what it is that you want.
> > Eventually, the consequences of those conscious decisions will be
> > begin appearing more frequently than those that were made
> > unconsciously. Unfortunately, there is a definate time lag between
> > moving from living in an unconscious state to a conscious state. At
> > first it seems like life is not changing but little by little as
> days
> > go by and you continue to make conscious choices your life slowly
> > begins to get a little brighter, a little lighter. It also takes
> > practice and discipline...but you have to start or nothing better
> > will ever begin to happen for you different in the way you live now.
>
> Better than what? I'm mean having no choice in what i get to eat,
> because of the actions of others is why i'm in the situation i'm in,
> i'm also, not saying i'm the only one on this planet that is in the
> same boat either. Of coarse one could argue the facts that i could
> become a thief or drug dealer or prostitute or minimun wage slave so
> that would increase my choice that my free will can choose from.
>
> Also, Free will, what is my free will? Is it part of a conditioned
> mind made up of my collected experiences based on a pre-programmed
> formula of conditioning or a complete manifestation of my primodial
> instinct unobstruted from conditioning?
> > No I don't. I know you are responsible for yourself and yourself
> > alone. Period. Of course, that is my own personal b.s. and I am
> > standing by it.
>
> So then a police officer, dumping me in the middle of nowhere, is my
> responsibility? It's my fault? It's my fault they laughed at me
> when
> i told them i was on my way to a buddhist retreat centre? I'm
> responsible for the laws that govern my actions? am i responsible
> for
> how someone perceives me and what i say?
>
> What about the responsibility of the "overseers"?
> > It may have felt like criticism but it is not. You can be whoever
> you
> > want to be. My own bias is that people are supposed to be happy in
> > what they choose to be. You would not have written to the list if
> you
> > were not unhappy with your situation. Sometimes honesty and
> kindness
> > feels like cruelty.
>
> Yes, i've come to learn that about love and what some people call
> love
> is extremely cruel and abusive sometimes, but like you said they are
> just being honest and kind!
>
> > I could have spouted new age crap at you...we would have both felt
> a
> > little better for awhile but I would still be laying a line of shit
> > on you.It sounds like you have enough shit around you already, so
> why
> > dump more on you. Why not be real with each other?
>
> I would have fell a sleep at the new crap.
> Plus it an outside path from the path taht i'm on.
>
> > > That's too much of a generallization, would you be able to say
> that
> > > you loved both individuals equally and that your concepts of the
> > > ideals you have mentioned are rational?
> >
> > I never said I loved them. I don't have to love a man to have sex
> or
> > be intimate with him. It may be too much of a generallization for
> you
> > but it is what I want and is how I discern what I want based on my
> > past experiences.
>
> That's fine, that's your ego functioning to what it chooses to grasp,
> and is subject to the karma that is associate to particular grapings
> of desire. If you are not concerned for what the other person is
> doing then that's your choice. If you want to fully understand the
> "energy" you feel, do what you want and learn what you can.
>
> How were you viewing you past experiences? What sort of background
> did you have? Why do you have this background?
> From my past experience intimacy (which is a problem with me, due to
> past abuses, but i won't indulge for people here seem to be quite
> cold
> about victim issues)
>
> >I don't care whether or not the ideals are
> > rational. Rational to who? Having sex is not always a rational
> > decision.
>
> > To tell you the truth I would probably have sex with both
> > of them, given they both have equal characters, but only consider
> > something serious with the one who could offer me more than a box
> to
> > visit him in.
>
> Well, do what you want, that's your view on life...what's the old
> saying...do what thou shal wilt shal be the whole of the law?
> I guess your right, i mean i've been in too many situations where
> people would rather lie, steal, and hurt me to get something from me.
> So i'm very defensive towards anyone trying to get close to me, it's
> like a wall of knives, oh well, scars and wounds take a long time to
> heal, i suppose.
>
> > Oh i forgot, society is
> > > equal
> > > and men take women out and pay, i forgot. Wealth is about
> > > materialism
> > > not knowledge.
>
> That was a joke...obviously i don't believe that.
> > That is what you think, not me. What I know is...the way a person
> > lives their life is a reflection of their connection with Spirit. A
> > man who lives his life with passion and joy will have that
> reflected
> > in his life. Our relationship with money is a direct reflection of
> > our relationship with our inner Self. So to go back to my example
> > about having sex with a bum...I possibly would if I discerned that
> it
> > was a temporary situation and not a permanent reflection of inner
> > chaos.
>
> I though goddess didn't judge?
> > What if you happened to not see some qualities in the
> > > bum, that would have ended up shinning bright if you just cleaned
> > him
> > > up and took charge (not save him, that's your concept)? Of coarse
> > > who's to say who would be the right person for you, that's your
> > > choice. And you based it on a dualistic view of a bum and it's
> > > opposite.
> >
> > Actually, I see the awesome beauty of everyone's soul regardless of
> > how they decide they want to manifest on this planet.
> Unfortunately,
> > most people don't want to see this shimmering beauty that lives
> > within them. They prefer to live out the projections of their
> > subconscious however they acquired them. They don't believe me when
> I
> > tell them that a god or goddess lives inside them. Does that sound
> > familiar to you?
>
> oh no, i'm aware of the femine principles. and have done a bit of
> reading up on Kuan Yin...
> > Susan
> > Krishnamurti: "The moment you have in your heart this
> > extraordinary thing called love and feel the depth, the delight, the
> > ecstasy of it, you will discover that for you the world is
> > transformed."
>
> So how do i open up my third eye?
> there's a jewel in the field of elixer:
> stop seeking the Path
> Face objects without a mind:
> don't ask about Zen.
>
> Lu Ch'un-yang
>
>
---
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent/spirit/kindex.htm
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.