To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/10/02 04:15
Subject: [K-list] fear mongering, claiming experience, logic, responsibility Re: Need Help
From: Nina
On 2001/10/02 04:15, Nina posted thus to the K-list:
Balance in all things.
--- In Kundalini-GatewayATnospamy..., infoATnospamC... wrote:
> If you tell someone to hate someone else because they are a certain
> ethnic background, I think that is feeding a negative fear.
>
> If you tell someone that they will burn in the fires of Brimstone
for
> all eternity if they do not believe in a certain religion, I
believe
> that is feeding a negative fear.
>
> But if you tell someone to get out of the street because a truck is
> coming, I think that this is genuine concern for someone's well-
being
> and self-preservation.
But, Sean, dear, you told her to get out of the way of the truck with
such relish in how you described the potential of her guts smushed
flat beneath the oncoming tires. Oh, and by the way, you didn't
notice that pedestrians have right-of-way at intersections. No
kidding.
> I warned Leslee that the practice of certain yogic disciplines are
> believed to create distorted specimans, and that there are many
> insane specimans in India that practice Hatha Yoga.
Does the practice of yoga distort the "specimen" or is the "specimen"
distorting the "specimen"? There are many insane specimens that are
not in India and are not practicing Hatha Yoga. Good grief, where is
the logic?
If one is fearing distortion or actively seeking it out, one will
find it.
If one is seeking balance and actively practicing it, one will find
it.
> In no way do I believe this was feeding a negative fear, as its
> intention was to protect the individual for whom it was intended.
How parental of you.
<snip>
> Perhaps many of the people on this list have had the fortune of not
> having to deal with a highly painful psychotic experience of their
> own, or of having to watch a friend slip away from them because of
> improper self care, or have come into contact with k - awakened
> schizophrenic paranoid and delusional individuals who pray for
> tornadoes to take the lives of people. Well I have. I know how real
> and serious the warnings Gopi Krishna gave really are because I've
> experienced them for myself.
There are many people on this list and a wide range of experiences.
What are your experiences beyond the dramatic ones you have described
for us? The range is truly mind-boggling, isn't it? Why are you
focusing on this particular incident?
Why do any of us "hang-on" to or "claim" any experience and then make
it "the experience" of whatever it is we are experiencing?
And then, why do we assume that such an experience has a high
likelihood of applying to others? Crippling!
(A good question for me to look at in my own life, btw.)
> There is a difference between having a healthy fear of self-
> preservation, and of letting fear take happiness away from your
daily
> life because you choose focus on a fear that is either not helful
for
> you, or is irrational (most fears probably fall into the latter two
> categories).
Fear fear fear. What is it you fear?
Let it gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
> As I said, Angelique, your own post already attested to the fact
that
> her yoga practices could be damaging her. Her private post to me
and
> also to everyone else showed me her insistence to keep up with
them.
> And she actually looked for people to support her in her decision
to
> keep up with those practices.
"Her decision."
> WELL I WON'T DO IT.
Well, why not? It is, afterall, her life, her living.
Seriously, -why not-? These aren't flippant questions.
> I stand by what I said and how I chose to say it, and I care enough
> to appeal to her fears of self-preservation to try to deter her
from
> further hurting herself.
Appealing to fears of self-preservation. Appealing to fears of
anything is the key here, Sean. Why in the world are you appealing to
fears?! The real answer, please. Not this bit about caring about
Leslee's self-preservation. (You have already shared with us a
message of glee in destruction of self and others.)
> If she insists on believing that her yogic disciplines are not
going
> to hurt her, that is her choice. But facts are still facts whether
we
> choose to believe them or not.
Presentation of any fact is a selective process.
> I would like for someone to take a very logical and realistic look
> at this particular issue.
I would like to know what logic is.
What you write below, Sean, has the shine of a balanced presentation
of "facts" determinable by Leslee...
> If her practices are not doing her any harm and she discontinues
them
> for a period of days, she will be able to tell in a short period of
> time because her (negative) symtoms should remain fairly constant.
>
> At the very worst she will miss a few days (perhaps weeks)
practicing
> the yoga that she loves so much.
>
> But if the her yogic practices are doing harm to her system then
she
> is going to suffer the consequences because of it.
>
> Given these simple facts, it would be illogical for someone to
> continue their yogic practices and not at least stop them (lessen
> them, or find alternatives) for even a short period in order to
test
> and find out if they really are the cause behind her (negative)
> symptoms... Doesn't she owe it to herself to find out what she CAN
> do? The only way to begin is by a process of elimination, and good,
> scientific emperical observation.
>
> I can say that, given the experiences that I have had, that it
would
> be irresponsible of me to not communicate to her what I did and how
I
> did it.
This question of responsibility is a good one. What is it?
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