To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/07/31 03:30
Subject: Re: [K-list] shamanic initiation
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
On 2001/07/31 03:30, Mystress Angelique Serpent posted thus to the K-list:
At 11:20 PM 7/30/01, SerenasblissATnospamaol.com wrote:
>Mystress wrote-
>
> >If you identify with the term artist better, then use that term.
> >Reading your post, I do not get the sense that you are a Shaman.. I could
> >be mistaken. I think Aphrodite would prefer the term "Priestess."
>
>Um, I think she prefers to call me a whore, lately. ;-)
Perfect. That would be the role of a Priestess of Aphrodite.. sacred
whore. It is only in modern times that term has come to be considered a bad
thing. Perhaps She is trying to desensitise you to the label.
>My post was about re-examining some of the experiences I flashed to
>when reading your descriptions about shamanism.
>I was re-examining some things under the light your definition cast.
OK.
>I didn't consider
>that you would read what I wrote as evidence to be considered
>for a shaman/not-shaman identification.
>I was blind-sided by your response. That is okay.
Yes.. I felt you would be.. and that it would be OK.
>The only identifying that matters is my own, and the
>only judging that matters is Hers. I think I'll stay with this; I don't
>have room in this process of becoming
>for much else at the present time. At the moment the passage
>is a bit narrow. It will broaden out later I imagine and there will be room
>to contemplate and consider other people's opinions about my becoming.
Good! That is the position of strength.
>What amazes me
>is how the information pours in when I need it. Synchronicity.
>Mystress, thank you.
:) You are welcome. Thank you for thanking me.
>Would I like an attagirl/welcome to the club-kinda message from you
>and shamanic others? Sure.
>But I will manage without it.
The path is not like that..
What I mentioned about the non-hierarchical nature. If you need
someone else to tell you that you are a Shaman and give you approval.. then
you are not one. If the idea of shamanism is something like a dress that
you try on to see if it flatters you before you decide to buy it, and you
have to ask your friends what they think before you haul out the credit
card.. then you are on the wrong track.
>I don't need to demonize my need to belong
>and to be part of a tribe; rejecting my needs to find others like myself makes
>as little sense as allowing these needs to rule my life and lead me
>to compromise my Self.
Yes/no/maybe. I spent years trying to find others like myself.. this
list is as close as I have ever come to that. I have found community here..
but others like myself? Yes/no/maybe.. not really. We are all so unique.
I felt better when I finally understood that the reason the crowd
pushed me out, was that I was not meant to be part of the crowd, I was
meant to be out in front, leading the parade.
Shamanism and leadership both, are somewhat isolated/isolating, by
their very nature. As the expression goes, "It's lonely at the top".. that
loneliness can really only be filled from within.
The buddha says to be free from need.. a tall order, to be sure...but
it implies a wise suggestion to examine needs and see what they spring
from. Not to demonize them, but to see where you are looking externally,
for something that is better found, within.
>Thanks for writing your post, Mystress; the experience
>of dealing with it is a confirmation to me that
>I am not so overwhelmed/devastated by certain kind of challenge
>(one coming from people I respect and admire- like you)
>as I once was. Today feels like a graduation.
:) Perfect. Yes, that is what it was. Through meeting challenge, you
discover your strength.
>I was surprised that you evaluated my post and give
>me a "thumbs-down" on the shaman thing, but then you were probably
>led to do so for some good reason.
Yes. It was not personal.. I was given quite specific instructions on
how to respond to your post. I surrendered to them.
>It was a powerful experience, having my fledgling self-understanding
>challenged by you, then experiencing that I can handle it and that I am
>largely free of the Self-mutilating patterns you recalled to mind.
Exactly so.. you would not have known it, so clearly otherwise.
You spent years trying to identify and label the blockage that I ate,
without much success.. and even after I ate it, Goddess did not give back
the full meaning of it, right away. You have had a few weeks for your
physical self to catch up with how your energy body has changed, for the
hole where the blockage was, to be filled in and restructured.
Now came the time to bring the pattern fully into consciousness, and
give you a *choice* to recreate the old habitual pattern, or to .. well, as
you put it, "Graduate" to a new way of being. Like taking the cast off a
leg that was broken, and putting some weight on it to see that it is truly
healed. Test the strength of the healing so you would know that the surgery
was effective.
>It all comes out in the wash, and it is all okay.
>I hope we can agree to disagree about whether or not I am a Shaman
>of whatever sort.
ROTFLOL!! Darlin, it is not for me to decide if you are a Shaman or
not~!!! Hello! Ask Aphrodite!
Personally, ..~having devoured you~ you don't taste like a Shaman to
me. You taste more like a Dakini or a Sacred whore Priestess of Aphrodite.
Delicious! But a different flavor.
If I check with my gut:
Serena=shaman- gut says no.
Serena=whore- gut and heart both respond.. =kind of.
Serena=Priestess.. warm fuzzy heart says Yes Yes Yes!
Preiestess is excellent, a position of power that will serve you
perfectly. I am happy to be a Shaman as well, but I wouldn't wish it on
anybody. Integrating the Priestess is hard enough, but the Shamanic path is
unbelievably difficult.. and the gifts that come from it, are not something
that I forsee you will need to do your work.
In the bigger picture, what you are is the Infinite nameless nothing
that is All.. I call it Goddess, because namelessness is inconvenient for
conversation... but really any kind of title or label is a limitation on
that. Words and titles cannot capture of define the infinite.
I have a whole pack of titles, Shaman, High Priestess, Shaktipat
Master, Mystress, Grail Queen, Queen of Alien Hybrids, Queen of the machine
mind universe, Witch, Karmic Vampire, clairvoyant, empathic healer, yadda
yadda yadda.. cannot even remember them all. Sure, they are genuine, and so
what?
If I am writing advertising copy for my pro healer serivces, or working
with someone who puts faith in titles, then they are useful.. but what I
really am is infinite, nameless nothing, All that Is.. the ineffable
mystery that spirit labeled Mystress.. and within myself, that is plenty.
It is peace and the blessed inner silence of the Zen Master.
>I ~really~ like the shaman concept because it is so useful
Uh-huh.. that is what I mean.. you like it as a concept, you find it
useful.. like a dress you are trying on for size, or a car that you are
test-driving. A hat. You are flirting with the *idea* of being a shaman,
but if you really are one, then your whole being would shout it out to you
like a thunderstorm hurricane erupting from the core of your being, and
there would be none of this indecision and flirting with the idea.
> The part the
>shaman concept helps most with is the part
>of my life that has to do with Hades, which I didn't write
>about at all (and have never really written about. Interesting omission. I
>probably wasn't ready.).
Well, when you have really integrated it, you will be ready.
Perhaps you will taste like a Shaman, then.. :) :) :)
Nah.. sweet dancing dakini.. Priestesss!!
To integrate the Priestess you have to be beyond duality, and that is
about getting into the underworld, etc.. making peace with the duality that
is the illusion of death..
I am a High Priestess and a Shaman, and I have Priestesses that are
Shamans and Priestesses that are not Shamans.. both end up doing the
life-death integration dance, but the Shamans process is much more
involved. I cannot really define the difference, but there is a difference.
Hmmm.. The Priestesses are like Inanna, they journey into the
underworld to become empowered by the experience of death and loss, find
unity, non dual perspective, then they go back home to the Light. Visitors,
The Shamans Become death itself, the archetype dude is an aspect of my
being. Wearing the cloak and moving in the world.
Not much fun, really.. avoid it if you can! My shamanic process was
stalled when I was a preschooler, I resisted and got stuck partway through
integrating the Portal Guardian.. a being that manifests in duality as a
terrifying reflection of fear and death.. that is the other part of the
puzzle of the experiences of rejection and hostility I received as a child.
Not just the shakti field effect.
>What really leapt out at me was what you said about the spirit trying
>immediately and seriously to kill you as
>part of the process. I've never had a way to reconcile
>Her presence in my life with the adversity,
>life-threatening illness and so on.
Well, that experience is not exclusive to Shamanism. Actually, it is
quite common to Christian saints! Many great saints suffered horribly their
whole life long. Not terribly unusual for Kundalites, either. Not to
mention the large numbers of people who become awakened through some type
of near death experience, trauma, etc. Common concept of the "wounded
healer".. but not all wounded healers are shamans.
Through challenge, we grow.. by facing death, we become more alive. As
Carl Jung said, "There is no coming to consciousness, without pain." That
is just the way of it. Human nature.
> >Contemporary new age
> >folks want to make it into something different than what it is... as you
> >are trying to do, in this post.
>
>This is the only part of your post that really stung me
>in a bad way , where I want to say
>"Ouch! Unfair! Safeword!" I'll meditate about it. I know the
>truth is supposed to hurt, as the saying goes, but truth-pain
>I have generally eroticized.
Pushing your limits..;)
I considered deleting that line when it came out, because it seemed like
a pretty hard smack, and I generally find that gentle communication is more
effective... but I was clearly told to let it stand.. because it is Truth.
>She let me know when I read your description
>of Shamanism that there was something ~very~
>important there for me. I will sort
>out what it is with Her help.
Good! Don't take my word for it.. I am sharing my opinions but I
cannot be Goddess for you.
What I feel, is that Goddess drew your attention to it because She
needs you to make peace with the fact that She has had to kick your ass
around the block a few times to get you to where you need to be. (Thank you
Goddess, may I have another? :) ) To get you to a place of trust where you
are ready to shut your eyes and leap.
Ask Aphrodite if your pain was directly related to your agreement
that She would always explain what She was up to, with you in black and
white words. That resistance that made you bargain with her instead of
surrendering unconditionally.
I am getting "yes, 75%.. the rest was cleansing and normal growing
pains." Ask Her~!
>I'd like to do some of this sorting on this list.
Go ahead.
>If that won't work for you, for whatever reasons- such as you can't help but
>think I am seriously on the wrong track, and am possibly diluting the
>concept of shamanism by using this concept to explore
>myself- I will sadly accept it.
I'm not going to edit you or censor you. I've said pretty much all I
have to say on the topic, and I have a whack of other mail waiting in my
inbox.
>Your posts are so valuable to
>me, I can't even say.
thank you, I'm glad!
>Mystress, that sacral thing is gone, you ate it. I am free of pain-
>the physical pain and the issues that created it.
Yaaaay!
>I worked for ~years~ to challenge Self-limiting conformism, becoming
>strong enough to be Me in the process. You yanked and munched
>and that was the last piece of the healing.
>As best I can tell the healing "took" and this icky pattern is a
>thing of the past. Pass the champagne. :-)
Cheers!!!
Now, quit trying to interpret your experiences conform to my definition
of Shamanism..:) Well, keep at it if you like.. as you wish.. :) But it is
my definition, I am a Shaman, and I am telling you, they don't fit.
Blessings!
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.