To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/04/05 10:38
Subject: Re: [K-list] relationship and communication
From: Jose Gita
On 2001/04/05 10:38, Jose Gita posted thus to the K-list:
Hi JB,
Why, for Godess'sake, is tantric manipulation a torture?
Love,José
JB789ATnospamhotmail.com:
> Hi
>
> Since this subject could easily be considered dualistic, I wonder
> whether I am not already disqualified and so perhaps best not to
> write at all.
> But even so, another ½ hour of waste, will probably not impede my
> eventual illumination..(?!)
>
> Since the following is something I've been presented with thru many
> years, it weighs heavy (if you ask 'on Whom ?' then I am chess mate
> and I might as well watch Tv and suffer on..unless you say 'Who's
> suffering ?'.. :o) )..
> ..so I might be able to write thousands of words,.. but I will try
> hard not to take too much of your time.
>
> It is about communication in an intimate relationship.
> About her incomplete messages (I have to guess the first/half part),
> .. her apparent living in her private world of -romantic mentality
> which wanting undisturbed, looks away from the actuality of our
> relating. About my being drained of energy, when having to often
> repeat a statement or practical info, at least 3 times before being
> heard.. and sometimes not even then,..
> I am not talking about a lack of some subtle form of non-
> verbal 'spiritual' communication, but about an utterly messy/chaotic
> _Verbal_ communication about even the simplest of matters.
> She is not 'stupid'; she is very loving (at least in the 'normal'
> usage of that word), has good intentions to change it.. but since
> intentions are not enough to do it,.. it just keeps on.
>
> For an occasional misunderstanding or not listening,..getting a talk
> about 'sugar' as a reply to 'please, pass the salt'.. however off
> that might be, one does not have to be a Buddha to menage without
> great irritation. But how about 20 of such incidents a day ?
> Personally, at some point, the body starts to shake inwardly and
> despair sets in. Because after 5 years of making her aware of
> this, .. talking.. talking.. well I am burned out by now.
>
> A couple of 'communication' samples:
> - Passing by a grocer's I say: Look at those nice melons.. should'nt
> we buy one ?.. her reply: 'oh yes, lemon, we need lemon.. let's buy
> lemon !' . I say ' but, what about the melon ?..' .. she:'for the
> fish, lemon for the fish..' I say: 'ok, but I asked about the
> melon .. why do you keep on talking about lemon ?'.. she:'because, I
> ahve some very nice fish home and it needs lemon..'
> - In an add about an apt. (are planning to ove in together.. still
> not sure about this one !?)it was stated that :'_minimum 2 persons
> were required, to be able to move in'.
> I've told her this about 5-7 times and also shown it to her, in black
> and white.
> At some point she says. 'well, i can always sign up my daughter also
> if they want 3, because that's what I've done when i moved in this
> apt. and..' I reply. 'what are you talking about.. why do you talk
> about 3 persons ..?' she: ' well, because that's what i've done.. and
> somebody told me that to move in a row house 3 people are necessary
> and ..' I : ' you are talking about a hypotetical apt.,.. is all that
> talk necessary,.. should we not relate to -This one ?.. it says here
> that min. 2 are sufficient, that means 2 is ok, .. _me and you_ equal
> 2, no .. equal ok, no ??'.. she 'aaaa, ah yea, minimum, yea 2'..
> - when we agree on something, _often_ she does not seem to register
> regardless of how simple and concrete the message is... when her
> actions do not correspond to the agreement, her ussual response is
> one of justifying by starting a sentence with 'I forgot...' or 'I
> thought you said..'
> - She just removed my pipe tobacco from my pouch. I say'please give
> me back the tobacco so I do not forget to take it with me' and I
> point to it (was close to her).. she: 'Ohhh,.. the tobacco jar is
> empty, and is in the kitchen,.. ohh..no more tobacco I smoked it
> all..'.. I: what tobacco are talking about ?'.. she: ' well, you gave
> it to me 3 weeks ago,.. in the kitchen..'..
> well I started to shake inwardly non-Buddha style : 'for gods sake, I
> pointed to the one lying next to you..!'
>
> Well I'd better stop before I provoke too much detached/nondualistic
> thinking in the reader.
>
> But imagine yourself exposed to this input hundreds of times...
> Where would your non-reactional awareness beyond good/bad, be at ?
> Should one carry on with it, in the name of 'seeing ones reactions'
> and not escaping ?
>
> With age, the sexual togetherness naturally withers (unless you're
> willing to torture yourself with 'tantric' manipulation).. so if
> there is not some sane verbal communication, what is -left ?
>
> As for the non-verbal one,.. the Being/unconditional love, .. can
> that fragile flower of communion be, if the verbal is utter chaos,
> feeding a lot of high-blood pressure, nervous states etc. ?
> Can that communion be, when one abides in complete Non-Presence..
> except for her presence to her own personal univers' romantic
> creations ?
> To be honest, at times I feel that either I get a nervous breakdown or
> become apathetic, speechless and with a voluntarily numbed
> sensitivity to what's happening around me.. (no see/no hear),..
> called perhaps manio-depression.
>
> There is love for her, so there is this dilemma.
>
> One attitude could be : "that's ok,.. small thing !, let the woman
> chatter away,.. she cooks nice food for you and you get your sex, so
> what's the big deal ?!"
> Well, I cannot hop on that 'solution'.
> Really, I feel I do not need anything from another.. I can have a
> good life alone,.. it's just that a possibility for a 'dance'..
> steping lightly does not have to be excluded.
> But that dance cannot even start.. due to the above mentioned noise
> one cannot hear the 'music' !
> And now, looking for an apt....
> I am probably more confused than she is..
> She wished for years that we move in...
>
> Apart from 'all is illusion.. your not the body, mind, emotions,
> ears, words..you are -That' what else would you say to this poor chap
> in despair ?
>
> JB
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