To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/04/05 02:35
Subject: Re: [K-list] Chips on our shoulders
From: Wim Borsboom
On 2001/04/05 02:35, Wim Borsboom posted thus to the K-list:
Dear Angelique,
I wrote:
> >to eventually let the suffering lose its sting,
> >to have your own suffering lose its strangle hold,
> >one has to see the suffering as one's own,
> >as internal... but... NOT caused by you,
> >not asked for by you and not allowed by you.
> >(As disabled you were made to be... and powerless.)
You wrote:
> How do you know?
Well that is very simple. Do you remember that you did ask for i? Do you
remember that you attracted it. Do you remember???
> I'm snipping your essay on grammar, because I think
> it is beside the point. You apparently think it is the point, that is
> fine.. it just was not resonant for me.
That's alright.
> I take the attitude "I attract that which occurs"
Exactly, you take the attitude. But you don't really know that! Can you
remember it?
It must be a concept, I'm sure.
> because I find it more empowering than
> continuing to hold an attitude of victimhood...
What I write about does not come from or lead to victimhood either, it is
not blaming and being blamed, or saying "oh, poor me". What I suggest helps
in alleviating suffering. through insight, insight into some very complex
dynamics...
This insight into the dynamics of what bring things about, is as empowering
as to know how you broke for example your leg. Why and when, what were the
circumstances, who was involved, the whole dynamics. That knowledge will
help you prevent a next occurrence, a repetition maybe... When, indeed you
DON'T DO THAT, the likelihood that the same thing will happen again
increases... From that, you or someone else might have drawn the conclusion
that you kept attracting it.. That someone probably said it often enough so
that now you believe it....
Could it be that you have been 'led' to believe?
You see Angelique, could it be that the "attitude" that you think you so
freely "took" was conditioned into you by someone who wanted you to take the
blame for the 'attraction' yourself... could that just be? Such people will
say that you attract your circumstances. I makes them feel better and you
are left holding the bag, "Jij zit met de gebakken peren" (Dutch) . Later in
life, true, attractions are involved, but again you are attracted by them,
you are now sensitive to them...you don't attract them to you...
Some people will go so far as to say that they are accident prone. Sure,
that is not exactly the same but there are parallels. I'll show you.
After I pointed out certain colours in their aura with the help of the
bio-energy imaging machine I use, some clients of mine discovered something
unexpected about their accident proneness. Unbalanced colours appeared on
the maternal-influences-side of their aura, often on the outside of the
right knee and on the right side of the hips, about a foot away from the
body, (which indicates that something happened in the past.) At the same
time those colours show up as signs of disturbed energies around the
kidneys, bladder, urethra and lower belly.
When those energies appeared more prevalent on the paternal side, around the
belly and intestinal tract, these clients explained why, with some graphic
and very disturbing memories and explanations.
Some clients commented that their mother had taken a fall or did not fully
accept the pregnancy. One client even said that her mother attempted an
abortion and that her mother still wished that it should have been
successful.
With another client the disturbed colours appeared on the other side, that
client said that her mother was punched in the stomach during early
pregnancy... Her father was an alcoholic and abusive. All these people,
before they saw their own detailed aura picture, said that they were
accident prone or got into the same mess time and again...
Does this not lead us to accept the validity of outside causes? Wait, don't
say anything yet!.
These clients certainly did, and appreciated understanding AND seeing that
their own memories and snippets of information from and about their parents
tied those combined past episodes to symptoms, discovering the connectedness
of mental, physical and social problems of the past.
Or.... or do we have to conclude that a little embryo/baby makes her mother
take a fall or a punch so that it could be aborted. That would be all the
more strange if the child had chosen its own mother...
So according to your premise, that person chose a mother to be born from...
but also chose that same mother who did not want to have the baby in the
first place... Does not work to well with me, does it still with you?
Surely sounds a bit like that man of the Flat Earth Society who initially
had some good reasoning behind his viewpoints, but now has to keep updating
his reasoning in light of new discoveries
It gets a bit convoluted in the end.
Sure it is all pretty conceptual, but I think there are less or more
effective or helpful concepts.
Seeing oneself as victimized surely does not help but seeing oneself as the
cause of one's problem by the simple notion of attraction can eventually
lead to self incrimination and premature ending of one's life.
Not that I see you do that Angelique... not by a long stretch...
But I have seen it happen and it is very very sad...
Clarification heals, obfuscation leads to repetition.
This may be why the Buddha suggested to gain insight and inquire lucidly,
to understand the laws of cause and effect so as to stop the wheel of
repetitive karma, the vicious circle of centripetal attraction...
It is good to see causal factors, be it people or circumstances... Once you
see the law of cause and effect you will look through it and start to be
your own person using one's will to freely choose not passively attract.
OK, I use a bit of Buddha stuff but it helps to bring some clarification
into this.
> I believe that all major events in my life were
> planned by me, before birth to shape me in certain
> ways that will contribute to my attaining what I
> set out to do, this lifetime.
> Can I prove it? No.
Can you remember it though? Or does someone remember that you did this? That
is the point.
> It is a belief,...
Yes, true, a belief in a concept, something you gathered.
But as you know yourself, a belief has not the certainty of truth... and a
concept is just a dispensable working tool to get to the certainty of truth.
Look at Jack, he is a carpenter and he has this wonderful new hammer with a
carbon fibre handle so his hands don't tire so quickly. He certainly trusts
his hammer, he might even believe that it is the best hammer that he could
get. But he knows it is just a hammer, it is not as important as the house
that Jack builds. He already knows that houses nowadays are stapled, glued
and screwed together. He may have to let go of his hammer, turn it into a
collector's item. Jack is at the moment taking an evening course to learn
the use of more appropriate tools. But he knows that it is the house that
he will finish that will count in the end. It is probably the best course he
could find ...but it is to build a better house.
Yes, and my view is a concept as well, and I'm not sure if it compares to a
pneumatic stapling gun or an old beat up hammer, but the 'school' where it
is coming from is led by some wise people... but that is not what counts, it
is the certainty of truth... that is what we want to recover.
> and I choose my beliefs by whether or not
> they serve my highest good, in the long term.
Right.
> I find looking for perfection in what Is, to be
> much more useful than picking away at my own
> ego ideas of imperfection, and using blame to
> shift responsibility outside myself.
(Oh oh , watch it now! Remember it is the one who told you that you
attracted your circumstances who shifted responsibility outside him or
herself on to you... Do you see that? Don't you remember?)
Again:
> I find looking for perfection in what Is, to be
> much more useful than picking away at my own
> ego ideas of imperfection, and using blame to
> shift responsibility outside myself.
I am not saying that either, it is not about blame or responsibility, it is
about the mechanics of how hurt is transmitted. To get clarity, insight,
lucidity
If you did not get that from what I wrote than you have not read well
enough.
> Recently you wrote something about your intuitive perceptions that
> Edgar Cayce regrets teaching that people choose their parents.. well, the
> thing about intuitive perceptions is that they still go through the
filters
> of personal belief. Your comments were not resonant to me, because I
> believe I did choose my parents. I wonder why you would presume to speak
> for a dead guy who cannot offer a rebuttal to your assumptions, but oh
well.
I presume I speak for a living guy, Angelique. And that guy happens to be
me.
And then a little while ago, when I wrote about my perceptions, I also spoke
for myself and E.C came to confirm it and urge me on. That is what I
remember.
> I have a choice.. I can choose to believe I chose my parents and look
> for perfection in finding the value in my experiences, or I can spend my
> life shaking my fist at God-dess for landing me in a terrible situation.
And I'm not saying that either, if you did not get that then you have not
read well enough.
> Blech. I choose the former, and see zero value in the latter. Taking
> responsibility for who I am and what I did, who I was born to, gives me
> power to see how it empowered me, rather than being stuck wallowing in the
> helplessness of self pity and blame.
I can repeat that line again but I won't...
> There was a study done on body language, to determine how muggers
> choose their victims. They took films of people walking down the street.
> They showed the films to imprisoned muggers, and asked them who they would
> choose to mug. Then they showed the films to policemen, and asked them the
> same question. They all picked the same few people out as likely victims.
> So they analysed the body language of those people on the film, and
> discovered that they were communicating a message of fearfulness and lack
> of safety. They expected to be victims. Likely their experience will
follow
> their expectation.
I appreciate that, but what do you mean to say... they attract their own
fate? How far do you want to go with that, what are you trying to
illustrate? You do not want to carry on too far with these kind of
deliberations I hope...
Getting very close to my point about that judge who acquitted the rapist and
reprimanded the raped lady for her enticing looks.
In Holland there was a writer 'Multatuli' who during the colonial age was
trying to change the Dutch colonial attitude with the inhabitants of
Indonesia. The Dutch were not very good people in those days and maybe still
not...who knows? The attitude of the colonists was that the 'coolies' as
they were called expected to be dealt with as though they were animals
because they looked and lived like animals. Well the Dutch behaved like
animals but only the way human animals can behave.
Do you really believe that everyone on earth attracts that which occurs when
you see it in that light.
But , what uh, am I ranting...? OK OK, I'll stop.
> We are all Gods, creating our own reality according to what we
> believe. As far as healing the old baggage, there are a lot of exercises
to
> dig up the old stuff and analyse it, wallow in it, and Kundalini itself
> will do that process for you.. or you can simply apply gratitude, and the
> silver linings will start to show.
No matter what concept we adhere to, that: "applying gratitude"must happen
anyway, but a bit of insight and clarity will make gratitude go down easier
and compassion grows from understanding... not contempt
If it does not, then people start writing the way you are doing below. You
have not been to the End of the Rope Ranch have you, Angelique.
And I thought Rush Limbaugh was gone, well it seems his seeds of contempt
are well scattered and are getting well fertilized with sarcastic shit from
web sites not doing you any good. But then you are attracting this
yourself... No way, Angelique, it is the shit that is trying to attract
you, don't let it suffocate you, this stuff is worse than deodorant
vapours... and you are starting to wallow not in self pity but in
misanthropic contempt... don't, it is not worth it.
> I see a huge trend towards coddling the victims and trying to
legislate
> away the need for personal responsibility. Legislation cannot ever replace
> the value of old fashioned common sense. I applaud the brilliance Goddess
> manifested in the simple evolutionary process of "Natural selection." The
> world is overpopulated. Stupid people getting themselves killed doing
> stupid things is just part of Natural selection, and all the laws in the
> world that try to prevent this from occurring won't really help much.
>
> Admittedly, I have spent the last few hours/days reading a wonderfully
> sarcastic site site called "Misanthropic B*tch" and looking at the world
> thru her glasses, darkly.. so I am not my usual compassionate self.
Just what I thought, about compassion, so stop this Angelique, shame on you
, whip whip whip
> But I
> enjoyed it. It truly was a breath of fresh air, with her "zero tolerance"
> attitude for victims and human stupidity... and infantile lawsuits
> undertaken by people who insist that it is their right to do brain-dead
> things and then sue somebody. Like the woman who sued Macdonalds because
> she burnt herself on hot coffee.
> Infantile blame.. wah wah, they did it to me! Ick. Coffee is made
from
> boiling water.. duh. Driving with hot beverages in your hand is
hazardous..
> no kidding. The courts rewarded her stupidity with several million
dollars.
>
> Ick. Legislation cannot ever replace old fashioned common sense.
> Goddess created "Natural selection" and this guy deserves a "Darwin
Award".
>
> Battered women's shelters and feminism are two huge areas where this
> occurs.. women are encouraged to put all the blame on the abuser and
never
> spend a moment considering why they had such terrible taste in men, or
such
> low self esteem to choose to be with, and stay with someone who did not
> treat them well. The result is they do not grow from the experience, and
> go right out to find another male who will treat them exactly the same
way.
>
> Feminists and the big bad patriarchy. Same-same.. yes, it is true that
> Patriarchal culture treated women as inferior and generations were
> brainwashed to believe that it is so, but continuing the identification
> with victimhood is not the same as clearing the brainwashing out of your
> own system and getting on with your own life. It only perpetuates the
> system of abusers and victims.
>
> I read a story of a tiny crone, faced with a young powerful rapist in
> her home, pretended to go along with his plans until she got one hand on
> his penis and the other on his testicles and hung on for dear life,
forcing
> him to call the police himself, confess and beg them to come rescue him
> from this crazy old lady's clutches. Too funny. She was nobody's victim.
> I laughed till I cried, Goddess 2 Atilla 0. David and Goliath rewritten.
> Granny and the poor vulnerable male. Oho. Three cheers for a woman
> determined not to be a victim, using her power and brains to get out of a
> bad situation.
>
> Well, I could probably rant on and on and on, but I think its best to
> stop here and go find something more useful to do.
> blessings..
I hope this is the extent of your temporary lapse from authenticity into
obsessiveness and deviation.... yep do something useful, how is your garden?
Love, Wim
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