To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/02/14 00:50
Subject: Re: [K-list] In the fullness of being
From: Edwin Zimbalast Jnr
On 2001/02/14 00:50, Edwin Zimbalast Jnr posted thus to the K-list:
Nothing mentioned of devotion and immersion in a devootional flow with teh
Supreme. Why not? Riddles riddles and like golum where doesit lead to?
I cannot see Truth here but only riddles. Please someone help to guide to
a means of practical realisation of god in all and so my mind can merge
ultimatley in the Supreme and my I-ness dissolve. What ist he way?
On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Wim Borsboom wrote:
:+Dear Edwin,
:+
:+I'm a very real, physical, both-feet-firmly-on-the-ground, kind of guy. None
:+of what I write is just thought or emptiness or magic or withdrawal like the
:+'cave type of thing' you mention later.
:+See if you can read my answer again and discover that what I mean is very
:+concrete
:+human divine action.
:+
:+> But I cannot understand. I have not repeated any question and you have,
:+> so what is revealed?
:+
:+The question that you have and the quest that you are on, is a literal and
:+functional repetition of the "basic question" that you have about yourself
:+(and you share that with pretty well most spiritual seekers):
:+YOU HABITUALLY QUESTION YOUR COMPLETENESS.
:+(You picked that habit up, or you were forced to acquire
:+that habit, a totally unfounded conditioning, there is in principle no need
:+for it.)
:+The question itself creates your acceptance of incompleteness.
:+
:+As the subject of your post indicates: 'the fullness of being' is your goal,
:+so you are convinced that you 'ain't there yet' and your question is how to
:+get there.
:+
:+That basic *question* has to stop... You inherited that 'useless' question,
:+(however often it may have been used, it is still useless) through your
:+culture and you are probably finding enough reasons to hold on to it. Those
:+reasons are illusions.
:+
:+How to stop it?
:+
:+By accepting that you have to stop the question and the quest.
:+It is that simple!
:+You have arrived and the answer is right under your nose, or you could
:+jokingly say: "It is your nose."
:+Stop searching for a certain fragrance, smell what is here at the moment.
:+
:+You need to give yourself a chance to admit that YOU ENTERTAIN AND
:+MAINTAIN that eternal self questioning question.
:+
:+Know that at this point you ARE the question, you LIVE the question. The
:+way you live attempts to prove that there is a need for the questioning of
:+your completeness.
:+
:+When a baby is born it does not ask, "Who am I?" But mommy or daddy or aunty
:+or uncle or granny or grandpa will from day one ask you, "Who are you?
:+tickle, tickle, tickle, "What's your name?" tickle tickle tickle, "How are
:+you? tickle tickle tickle. They do that often enough so that you at one
:+point also start to wonder who you are and how you are. That is how children
:+get conditioned to question themselves incessantly. In nature nothing
:+questions, in the human de-natured 'nature' we always do this totally
:+useless thing. That is why Jesus said, "Be like the lilies in the field...
:+they do not... "
:+They do not.... they do not do what humans usually do...
:+
:+You, with pretty well every other human being, are now pretty well totally
:+unaware
:+of the fact that you reiterate the quest for the answer to the questions of
:+who you are and what you are and how you are, constantly.
:+
:+See if you can understand what I say here...
:+It is true what I say,
:+No doubt about that...
:+
:+YOU need to find a way to agree with me, that is the first step ...
:+Do not counter my observations, that is counterproductive
:+Start by saying, "Yes, and I will find out that you (Wim) are right".
:+
:+Once you have been able to say that, even if with little conviction, give
:+yourself credit... that you tried...
:+Do this again, often, until you are convinced.
:+
:+Your wonderment about what I suggest will erase the questioning.
:+
:+> :+1. Move yourself into an environment where
:+> :+ the need does not arise. That is allowed.
:+
:+I mean something very concrete with that. Get away from the place that
:+prevents you from seeing and being your wholeness. E.g. If where you live or
:+work is not conducive to regain or retain integrity and wholeness your are
:+allowed (my opinion is you are obliged, but I'm more drastic than most) to
:+move away from it or quit. That does not mean you are escaping, it means
:+that you know what is the right place for you or not.
:+
:+I do not understand that your following paragraph was an answer to my two
:+sentences above.
:+
:+> I cannot see how this can be. The need is part of human nature - if not
:+> the ultimate nature, ie to realize good. What you may say sounds good but
:+> around us all is relative and to get beyond that surely we must desire and
:+> long for the Absolute, but relativity means we have to work things
:+> through. What you say is magic but seems complete denial.
:+
:+There is absolutely no denial in the way I live and the way I propose you
:+ recover your LIFE.
:+
:+> :+2. When the disharmonious environment
:+> :+ in which you are, elicits the question,
:+> :+ step back into a quiet spot inside that environment.
:+
:+> I know the quite spot but if you are not constantly wanting it then it
:+> will not be quite. So you say 'step inside - so a movement in relativity,
:+> meaning spiritual practive involves movement and so is a struggle - that
:+> is fine by me. All great saints I hear of experienced the same struggle
:+> and in it saw joy. Overwise what you say is illusion.
:+
:+That remark is very right, so you definitely understood me there. But I mean
:+it even more concretely. I said "step back into a quiet spot." I did not say
:+'step inside.' There is a great physical difference. I mean a spot where you
:+literally place you feet a spot that has less noise. AND that spot is very
:+often to be found IN the actual place where you live or work. So I do not
:+mean to go into a cave. Withdraw to a quiet spot in your house or your place
:+of work. No matter what others may say. But as I said, it is allowed to move
:+ or quit if the social environment is not conducive to your human divine
:+reintegration.
:+
:+> :+Every place, however much turmoil there seems to be, has such quiet
:+spots.
:+> :+Just like a waterfall, where it comes down and tumbles into the depths,
:+> :+there seems to be a lot of agitation, but there are always little pools
:+and
:+> :+eddies on the sides with some quiet or even still waters.
:+
:+> But it is strange to seek little places like if on a pilgramage. One has
:+> to see the Absolute in all - big and small. I do not want little quite
:+> spots of relaxation.
:+
:+Find out what I meant and do it...
:+I'm not saying what-you-understand-so-far.
:+Find out what I (Wim) mean.
:+Do not translate what you think I mean into words that
:+you already understand and don't agree with.
:+Obviously I do not mean what you know already, otherwise I would not write
:+to you.
:+
:+> :+Water is not able to seek those spots at will, it seems a matter of
:+chance,
:+> :+humans can... find those spots and go there.
:+> :+Withdraw to a quiet place inside the turmoil.
:+
:+> No noo no - no caves , no escapes, please no dreams.
:+
:+That is right no caves, no dreams, that is definitely not what I meant.
:+I said 'a quiet spot INSIDE the turmoil"
:+
:+> :+The law of cause and effect in nature is action / reaction.
:+> :+The law of cause and effect in the de-natured human has become action /
:+> :+counteraction.
:+>
:+> all action, all binding , no difference. what I want is to see action as
:+> God and not have reaction.
:+
:+The law of nature, and there is no way around it, not even for human nature
:+is 'cause and effect', 'action reaction'...
:+NO WAY AROUND IT
:+Believe me, I used to think what you say here... but that did not get me
:+anywhere...
:+
:+> :+Are you willing to work on the above two sentences - very concretely,
:+> :+mentally as well as physically, constantly?
:+>
:+> NO I want to work on something a lot more than intellectual sentences and
:+> mind games. I want to work so my mind merges into a flow, not a mind game
:+> of sentence. Please help in this regard.
:+
:+Notice that I said "mentally as well as physically" and ...
:+so far YOU are playing the intellectual and mental game...
:+unbeknownst to you...
:+
:+OK then, Edwin, read all this again, this is not intellectual this is...
:+ moving your feet and your body and using the
:+whole conglomerate of your senses into a real
:+physical environment where what you are looking for is already taking place
:+except you are not using your full experience be aware of it, because you
:+question yourself .
:+
:+The question hides the answer that is already there.
:+
:+Do not look for something grand or special or spectacular, *this is the
:+wonder already*, the world you are living in.
:+You are just not yet seeing it because you are looking for the grander
:+vistas... They do not exist...
:+How did I recover my bliss, my ecstasy...? Through what I try to convey to
:+you here.
:+The bliss and divine consciousness follow automatically once you accept
:+total normalcy...
:+"Give us today our daily bread" Jesus did not ask for heavenly manna
:+forever.
:+
:+Your mind will merge into the flow of reality, where the miraculous reality
:+of the day-to-day world will show nothing but the face of God.
:+
:+> :+Understand and experiment , experience the difference
:+
:+> No no expirements, no games, only straightforward devotional way so I can
:+> move and be One
:+
:+What I say is not a game, is not an experiment in the usual meaning of the
:+word. Experiment means to step out of the groove, step away from the binding
:+perimeter. Experience is a God given condition that allows the experience of
:+the divine and the recovery of the oneness of the human and the divine.
:+
:+> :+Once you get it, choose for the natural law... and practice practice...
:+
:+> Yes, yes, practice I must practice something spiritual - some inner
:+> intuitive practice not sentences. Yes , yes
:+
:+True you have to undo sentences, if you think that what I say is
:+'sentences.'
:+
:+> :+You will recover oneness, the way you would have kept it, if in your
:+early
:+> :+childhood you would not have been de-natured.
:+
:+> My early childhood would have already brought me into the world to
:+> experience rections and learn action as God.
:+
:+> :+The Buddha in you is not lost, is only now urging you to re-merge with
:+it,
:+> :+being yourself again
:+
:+> Buddha, I think saw emptyness. I cannot understand interpretations of
:+> Buddha. I want a modern contemporary master and guru only.
:+
:+You do not know what the Buddha saw, if you did you would not be querying.
:+I'm a pretty contemporary master...
:+You cannot falter, following me here.
:+
:+www.auraspher.dhs.org
:+
:+Love, Wim.
:+
:+
:+
:+<>
:+<
:+
:+
:+
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