To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/02/13 22:27
Subject: Re: [K-list] In the fullness of being
From: Wim Borsboom
On 2001/02/13 22:27, Wim Borsboom posted thus to the K-list:
Dear Edwin,
I'm a very real, physical, both-feet-firmly-on-the-ground, kind of guy. None
of what I write is just thought or emptiness or magic or withdrawal like the
'cave type of thing' you mention later.
See if you can read my answer again and discover that what I mean is very
concrete
human divine action.
> But I cannot understand. I have not repeated any question and you have,
> so what is revealed?
The question that you have and the quest that you are on, is a literal and
functional repetition of the "basic question" that you have about yourself
(and you share that with pretty well most spiritual seekers):
YOU HABITUALLY QUESTION YOUR COMPLETENESS.
(You picked that habit up, or you were forced to acquire
that habit, a totally unfounded conditioning, there is in principle no need
for it.)
The question itself creates your acceptance of incompleteness.
As the subject of your post indicates: 'the fullness of being' is your goal,
so you are convinced that you 'ain't there yet' and your question is how to
get there.
That basic *question* has to stop... You inherited that 'useless' question,
(however often it may have been used, it is still useless) through your
culture and you are probably finding enough reasons to hold on to it. Those
reasons are illusions.
How to stop it?
By accepting that you have to stop the question and the quest.
It is that simple!
You have arrived and the answer is right under your nose, or you could
jokingly say: "It is your nose."
Stop searching for a certain fragrance, smell what is here at the moment.
You need to give yourself a chance to admit that YOU ENTERTAIN AND
MAINTAIN that eternal self questioning question.
Know that at this point you ARE the question, you LIVE the question. The
way you live attempts to prove that there is a need for the questioning of
your completeness.
When a baby is born it does not ask, "Who am I?" But mommy or daddy or aunty
or uncle or granny or grandpa will from day one ask you, "Who are you?
tickle, tickle, tickle, "What's your name?" tickle tickle tickle, "How are
you? tickle tickle tickle. They do that often enough so that you at one
point also start to wonder who you are and how you are. That is how children
get conditioned to question themselves incessantly. In nature nothing
questions, in the human de-natured 'nature' we always do this totally
useless thing. That is why Jesus said, "Be like the lilies in the field...
they do not... "
They do not.... they do not do what humans usually do...
You, with pretty well every other human being, are now pretty well totally
unaware
of the fact that you reiterate the quest for the answer to the questions of
who you are and what you are and how you are, constantly.
See if you can understand what I say here...
It is true what I say,
No doubt about that...
YOU need to find a way to agree with me, that is the first step ...
Do not counter my observations, that is counterproductive
Start by saying, "Yes, and I will find out that you (Wim) are right".
Once you have been able to say that, even if with little conviction, give
yourself credit... that you tried...
Do this again, often, until you are convinced.
Your wonderment about what I suggest will erase the questioning.
> :+1. Move yourself into an environment where
> :+ the need does not arise. That is allowed.
I mean something very concrete with that. Get away from the place that
prevents you from seeing and being your wholeness. E.g. If where you live or
work is not conducive to regain or retain integrity and wholeness your are
allowed (my opinion is you are obliged, but I'm more drastic than most) to
move away from it or quit. That does not mean you are escaping, it means
that you know what is the right place for you or not.
I do not understand that your following paragraph was an answer to my two
sentences above.
> I cannot see how this can be. The need is part of human nature - if not
> the ultimate nature, ie to realize good. What you may say sounds good but
> around us all is relative and to get beyond that surely we must desire and
> long for the Absolute, but relativity means we have to work things
> through. What you say is magic but seems complete denial.
There is absolutely no denial in the way I live and the way I propose you
recover your LIFE.
> :+2. When the disharmonious environment
> :+ in which you are, elicits the question,
> :+ step back into a quiet spot inside that environment.
> I know the quite spot but if you are not constantly wanting it then it
> will not be quite. So you say 'step inside - so a movement in relativity,
> meaning spiritual practive involves movement and so is a struggle - that
> is fine by me. All great saints I hear of experienced the same struggle
> and in it saw joy. Overwise what you say is illusion.
That remark is very right, so you definitely understood me there. But I mean
it even more concretely. I said "step back into a quiet spot." I did not say
'step inside.' There is a great physical difference. I mean a spot where you
literally place you feet a spot that has less noise. AND that spot is very
often to be found IN the actual place where you live or work. So I do not
mean to go into a cave. Withdraw to a quiet spot in your house or your place
of work. No matter what others may say. But as I said, it is allowed to move
or quit if the social environment is not conducive to your human divine
reintegration.
> :+Every place, however much turmoil there seems to be, has such quiet
spots.
> :+Just like a waterfall, where it comes down and tumbles into the depths,
> :+there seems to be a lot of agitation, but there are always little pools
and
> :+eddies on the sides with some quiet or even still waters.
> But it is strange to seek little places like if on a pilgramage. One has
> to see the Absolute in all - big and small. I do not want little quite
> spots of relaxation.
Find out what I meant and do it...
I'm not saying what-you-understand-so-far.
Find out what I (Wim) mean.
Do not translate what you think I mean into words that
you already understand and don't agree with.
Obviously I do not mean what you know already, otherwise I would not write
to you.
> :+Water is not able to seek those spots at will, it seems a matter of
chance,
> :+humans can... find those spots and go there.
> :+Withdraw to a quiet place inside the turmoil.
> No noo no - no caves , no escapes, please no dreams.
That is right no caves, no dreams, that is definitely not what I meant.
I said 'a quiet spot INSIDE the turmoil"
> :+The law of cause and effect in nature is action / reaction.
> :+The law of cause and effect in the de-natured human has become action /
> :+counteraction.
>
> all action, all binding , no difference. what I want is to see action as
> God and not have reaction.
The law of nature, and there is no way around it, not even for human nature
is 'cause and effect', 'action reaction'...
NO WAY AROUND IT
Believe me, I used to think what you say here... but that did not get me
anywhere...
> :+Are you willing to work on the above two sentences - very concretely,
> :+mentally as well as physically, constantly?
>
> NO I want to work on something a lot more than intellectual sentences and
> mind games. I want to work so my mind merges into a flow, not a mind game
> of sentence. Please help in this regard.
Notice that I said "mentally as well as physically" and ...
so far YOU are playing the intellectual and mental game...
unbeknownst to you...
OK then, Edwin, read all this again, this is not intellectual this is...
moving your feet and your body and using the
whole conglomerate of your senses into a real
physical environment where what you are looking for is already taking place
except you are not using your full experience be aware of it, because you
question yourself .
The question hides the answer that is already there.
Do not look for something grand or special or spectacular, *this is the
wonder already*, the world you are living in.
You are just not yet seeing it because you are looking for the grander
vistas... They do not exist...
How did I recover my bliss, my ecstasy...? Through what I try to convey to
you here.
The bliss and divine consciousness follow automatically once you accept
total normalcy...
"Give us today our daily bread" Jesus did not ask for heavenly manna
forever.
Your mind will merge into the flow of reality, where the miraculous reality
of the day-to-day world will show nothing but the face of God.
> :+Understand and experiment , experience the difference
> No no expirements, no games, only straightforward devotional way so I can
> move and be One
What I say is not a game, is not an experiment in the usual meaning of the
word. Experiment means to step out of the groove, step away from the binding
perimeter. Experience is a God given condition that allows the experience of
the divine and the recovery of the oneness of the human and the divine.
> :+Once you get it, choose for the natural law... and practice practice...
> Yes, yes, practice I must practice something spiritual - some inner
> intuitive practice not sentences. Yes , yes
True you have to undo sentences, if you think that what I say is
'sentences.'
> :+You will recover oneness, the way you would have kept it, if in your
early
> :+childhood you would not have been de-natured.
> My early childhood would have already brought me into the world to
> experience rections and learn action as God.
> :+The Buddha in you is not lost, is only now urging you to re-merge with
it,
> :+being yourself again
> Buddha, I think saw emptyness. I cannot understand interpretations of
> Buddha. I want a modern contemporary master and guru only.
You do not know what the Buddha saw, if you did you would not be querying.
I'm a pretty contemporary master...
You cannot falter, following me here.
www.auraspher.dhs.org
Love, Wim.
/_/680797/_/982128231/
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.