To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/02/10 17:50
Subject: [K-list] Re: your opinion on healing
From: Vickie Novak
On 2001/02/10 17:50, Vickie Novak posted thus to the K-list:
> This is a discussion that Angelique and I started off list. Vickie
> At 10:10 AM 2/10/01, you wrote:
> >Dear Angelique, I would like your take, opinion on what I have written
> >below. I have been internally struggling with this for months. I know that
> >you don't really know me but I feel as if I know you, through the list.
> >Thank you for all the work that you do. I am grateful. If you are too busy
> >or can't get to it for whatever reason. that is ok too.
> >
> > Hi This is something that I have been working on and I would really
> > like to hear your opinions and thoughts and
> >questions on the below. positive, negative- either is ok. I'm sending
> >this to you because I trust that you will be open and
> >honest about this. Thank you.
> >
> >
> >I have been trying to figure out the energetic connection to
> >'acknowledging' injustice. It has been rolling around
> >in my mind and I couldn't quite put my finger on it. With the help of
> >Mike(my husband) I think I am beginning to get it.
> >Mike and I
> >were discussing this whole acknowledgment thing and what does it mean.
> >What is the energy running through it . Where
> >does it go? How does it work. We came up with this: We are disconnected in
> >different ways. One is to that we are
> >disconnected from this land and the ancestors who were here before.We are
> >disconnected from the fact that the land that
> >we all now live on was taken through force and blood shed. This creates
> >an energy that is unhealthy that is passed
> >through the generations. It's not obvious but it's there. This creates
> >dis-ease at some level. So how do we go about
> >healing the dis-ease. We start with acknowledgment. Acknowledging that
> >there has been a price paid in order for us as a
> >country to enjoy such prosperity. The acknowledgment sets the healing to
> >work. I see the energy like dominos falling
> >'back' and 'forward' in time. The acknowledgment makes the connection so
> >that the healing energy can flow to the
> >ancestors on BOTH SIDES and healing through the generations happens. It
> >flows foreword to the future generations so
> >that the lesson doesn't
> >have to be repeated. It flows to the ancestors of both the European and
> >Native people, beginning the healing of a wound that is still sore and
> >oozing. Does this make sense? For me this is a very REAL lesson in the
> >healing of this country. We
> >can begin a very powerful healing by beginning to acknowledge the First
> >People, the first care takers of the land we now
> >reside on. Thank you for reading and hearing my words. Thanks
> >to Pachamama, Wakan Tanka, God, Goddess, The Big Whatever. :) With Love,
> >Vickie
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> Hello, Vickie:
>
> Reading your post, I have several thoughts to share with you.
First of all thank you far taking the time. I sent this to you because I knew
you would be honest and tell me what you really feel. I am grateful for that.
> The first is that everything you see outside, is a reflection of
> what is inside: I think it is your own feelings of being unjustly treated,
> that you are truly dealing with, projected onto external events. The thing
> with the Natives is a roleplay for you to heal yourself.
Yes I agree. Life is a roleplay. :)
>
> The second, is that issues of injustice only appear at the lower
> chakras, particularly the power chakra. In the higher chakras, there is
> only perfection. God-dess does not judge. So, is there greater value in
> acknowledging injustice, or in seeking to see perfection in what Is?
There are parts of me that agree with what you say here and there are other
parts that are confused. I am struggling to find the place where this will be
healed for me. I think I understand that Goddess does not judge but do we? And
to what end? As for seeking the perfection in what is. Can I seek the
perfection in my own search, my own " judgment" for healing between peoples?
> In that vein, I want you to look at the larger picture: all beings
> are territorial, and fight for real estate. Ever weed a garden? There is a
> slow-motion competition for real estate and resources going on there, who
> will get the sun and rain and earth, the weeds or the plants you planted?
> It is a life and death struggle, no less violent because of the slow pace
> at which it occurs. Do the weeds need to ask forgiveness of the plants?
> Does the tree need to ask forgiveness of the grass that is killed in it's
> shade? This north American takeover is not limited to humans, either..
> humans brought starlings, house cats, English sparrows, tumbleweeds and
> dandelions with them, which in many cases have displaced the indigenous
> fauna and flora. Cane toads in Australia, rats and cats in the Galapagos.
Yes this is true. How do I look at what is still happening with the native
peoples? They continue to be slaughtered . There are times when I know
everything is as Goddess deems it. What do I do with this? Do I just sit here
and say oh well. The deaths and oppression are just a part of what they have
to go through and then sit back with my beer and pop corn to observe ? Maybe
Goddess deems that I get up off my duff and actually do something instead of
just blathering on about it. Where do I play a part in any of this. Yah I can
know that all this comes from the lower chakras. And I think- so what. This is
where I am now. This is what I feel I need to be doing no matter how
unenlightened it looks to others. I feel I came here to experience not just sit
back and ok lets watch the games. Do you know what I mean?
> Every being on this planet, fights for territory, birds to lions. Even
> down to the level of bacteria and viruses. Goddess set it up like that, it
> is part of evolution, nature.. and part of our nature, too. What is unique
> about our nature, is that we are the only ones to have egos, and the
> capacity to feel guilty about it.
>
> The essence of guilt, is when actions do not match up with self image.
> "I'm not the kind of person who would DO something like that." Well, you
> did, so you are. Deal with it.
> The secret to healing guilt, is to change your actions or your self
> image.. usually, the image is easiest to change.. especially in this
> instance where you *think* the guilt you feel does not come from your own
> actions, but from those of your ancestors.
I know that I have the capacity to do all things within myself. I'm dealing
with it in the best way that I know. I do not feel guilty and don't want
anyone else to either. What I would like to see is humans learning through the
'mistakes' that have been made in the past. I think I know everything is
perfect but I'm trying to find a way to understand this whole thing in this
place and time because that's where I am. So I have an ego.Okey dokey well
maybe this process is a part of how I come to a place where ego evolves. I
trust that Goddess is always leading me in the right direction. This must be
the right place because here I am. :)
> Humans are violent, territorial creatures, just like most everything
> else on this planet.. That is what I think you really need to
> acknowledge. The key to changing that, is not to pretend it does not exist
> and feel guilty, but rather to acknowledge and accept that aspect of your
> nature, and give it a different outlet. Moving the tribal violence to the
> hockey rink or Kung Fu Dojo.. going hunting with a camera instead of a gun.
I know that the violence does exist I just wish that we could move beyond it
or do it differently some how. I know that it is an aspect my nature and I
would love that the tribal violence move to the hockey rink and to other
sports instead of killing each other off. That's what I hope for. I sure don't
pretend that it doesn't exist. That's what this whole thing is about for me.
Acknowledging that it does exist.
> So, in essence, this obsession with the history of North America is
> not about the natives and the whites, it is about you coming to terms with
> your own animal nature.. learning to see perfection in it.. and learning to
> see perfection in whatever injustices happened to you, in the past that are
> being projected onto the externals. Change the world, by changing inside of
> yourself.
Yes that is what I am trying to do. Although not always very gracefully. :)
> That's the stuff about you.. in the larger picture of
> appearing-externals, the Sphinx has been dated as being more than 10,000
> years old.. much older than what we know of human history. Humans have been
> on this planet much, much longer than the historians know, but the earlier
> cultures were wiped out.. perhaps by a pole shift, or an asteroid, like
> killed the dinosaurs.
>
> How far do you want to go back in this healing? How wide do you want
> to make it? Before the Christian invasion of North America, there was the
> Roman invasion of Europe, the Mongol invasion of China, the Aryans invaded
> India, ... the list goes on and on. Farther back than we can know. Plato
> says the Atlanteans tried to invade Greece.. The old testament is filled
> with stories of the territorial struggles of the early Hebrews...do you
> think they feel guilty about the conquest of Jherico? About the slaying of
> the eldest sons of Egypt?
> Do you think the Romans felt guilt over conquering Europe? The
> Mongols? The Aryans? The British felt guilty about empire building in Asia
> and Africa?
> Christian guilt is a modern idea, of a modern ego...
In my opinion an acknowledgment of what has been done is all that is needed. It
feels to me like that opens the channels for healing to flow but I don't really
know. As for all the others killing each other in the past. I haven't gotten
involved in those fights as I do not know the histories as well as I know this
one. You would think that we would learn at some point not to resolve our
conflicts through killing each other. Will we ever learn from the past or is
this type of interaction forever a part of the human condition?
> Do you want to heal all of the history of human territorial struggles?
> Do you also want to be forgiving the natives history of their internal
> territorial struggles? They were fighting each other for territory and
> resources long before us white folks arrived.
I don't know
>
> For all of the noise Natives make about injustice, I really don't know
> any who want to give up cars, TVs, central heating and shopping malls, to
> go back to living in tents and hunting by bow and arrow.... any more than
> us Europeans want to all migrate back to Europe, or the Hebrews wanted to
> give up the aqueducts and medicine of the Romans... change is the only
> constant.
Why do they have to give up all these things that has been brought about by
and through their own genocide? Why do they have to go back to living the way
they were before the white man came? What does this have to do with healing the
divisions between people. For me the above has no relevance to what is being
asked. Of course change is constant but can't we acknowledge the fact that
change has brought much more prosperity for some than others. It has brought
much more death to some than others. Why does one group have to suffer
genocide? This I just don't get. Is there really such a thing as a win, win
situation when it comes to this kind of stuff? Do we need to continue
interacting in this way because this is just the way it is? I guess again I am
looking at it from the lower chakras and maybe as I move beyond it will make
more sense but for now it sure doesn't.
> So far as I know, us modern white folks are the first to even consider
> making reparations to conquered tribes.. which mostly came out of the
> realization that it was the terrible economic situation that Germany was
> left in, after the WWI that eventually led to WWII.. and so after WWII,
> Germany and Japan were assisted in rebuilding their economy.
>
> I want to suggest to you, that it is just a little arrogant to be
> judging your ancestors, who were simply behaving as humans have always
> behaved, as Nature decrees all beings behave.
Fine. My hope is that there is more.That things don't need to continue
happening in this way . And maybe there isn't more to it and I'm just
flailing around. So be it.
> I'm not making an exclusive argument for "survival of the fittest",
> because that is only part of the dynamic of the complex interdependent
> wheel that is nature; but it is an important part. The other part is how
> the conquered nation shapes the conquerers.
> Remember that Christianity was shaped by the pagan religions it
> conquered, and even Rome eventually fell because of Christianity, which
> came out of Israel, a conquered nation which had previously conquered other
> nations. The story of Genesis itself, is a reworking of an earlier,
> Sumerian myth. Hindu Tantra came out of the beliefs of the Dravidians, from
> the Indus valley of India... who were conquered by the Aryans, and the lost
> years of Christ are documented by the Indians, to have been spent at the
> feet of a yogi master in India.. Do you see how the wheel turns? The
> religion spawned by the conquered Dravidians has in turn, in altered form,
> been the basis of the White conquest of North America, and it was the
> beliefs of Native Americans that shaped the writing of the US
> constitution.... and the DNA of natives shows that they are descended from
> Asians..
So the culture of the conquered has an impact on those who have done the
conquering.
Ok...... Doesn't our DNA show that we all came from Africa? This is another
subject.
> Round and round it goes.. an enormous cultural exchange, that is based
> on the elementary idea of "survival of the fittest", which goes beyond
> races and into the intangible realm of ideas.. survival of the most
> workable ideas! That is the true essence of human evolution, and it
> transcends race.
Is it really the true essence of human evolution?
> To be more specific about the big picture, there have been stone
> markings and artifacts found in North America, in ancient Egyptian
> hieroglyphics and in the alphabet of Ogham, of the Celts.. this information
> is largely suppressed by the native population, as it goes against their
> claims to be "First Nations". However, a closer look at Native beliefs that
> shaped the constitution, their tribal organization shows that they bear an
> uncanny resemblance to those of the early Celts. The Celts had a similar
> arrangement of tribes, and that is why they could not band together to
> fight the Romans, any more than the North American Indians could band
> together to fight the whites. The story of Vercingetorix and Little Big
> Horn have a lot more in common than would appear, at a casual glance.
I know nothing about this .
> It is entirely possible that the people we call "natives" were actually
> not the "First nations", but that they wiped out other races/cultures who
> were here first. Why did Montezuma think the Conquistadors were the return
> of Quetzacoatl? Because they fit the description.. another clue about who
> the "first nations" might truly have been... but at present we cannot truly
> know, any more than we can know if an earlier Celtic or Atlantean
> occupation might have been preceded by some other race.
Maybe. I don't know.
>
> I'm not saying Native reparation is a bad thing.. I am wondering, what
> are you going to do, with this ideal of forgiveness? Is it all an abstract
> of prayer, or are you going to take action? Does your guilt extend to
> being willing to give up your home to become a shelter for displaced
> natives? Making it into an alcoholic rehabilitation center for indigenous
> peoples, or a single Mothers shelter, or.. an orphanage? Probably not..
> which in a way, is evidence that your feelings about the native issue is an
> abstraction of deeper, personal feelings that are all about you.
For me this is not just an abstract of prayer. I have already started very
small steps in doing what I feel needs to be done. Like writing to people and
asking about how they see and feel about this. I'm not exactly sure of what or
how I will do this but I will do it. Whether it is a healing center or just
sitting listening to those who carry this pain within them and holding them in
my heart. I am and will continue to work at it. I recently returned back to
college after many years so that I could learn more of the terminology and to
look at this from a more academic point of view. So, oh yes I am and will
continue to work with this. So it's an aspect of me... shrug... That will get
worked on too.
Why does there have to be guilt?
>
> Karma is a big wheel that may take centuries to turn... but it does
> turn, inevitably.. as Goddess Wills.
Yes
>
> To sum up, the very concept of "injustice" is a judgment of the lower
> chakras that must eventually be transcended, as your K. process continues.
Yes
>
> I suggest, that you look at your own injustices from this lifetime, and
> work on forgiving those, before you consider taking on the history of north
> America, or the whole history of the world's territorial issues..
> You may forward this post to the list, if you feel someone else may
> find value in it.
> Blessings..
Maybe I can do both at the same time. :))) Thank you for taking the time.
Gives me more to chew on. With Love, Vickie
>
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