To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/01/08 16:13
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Is Evolution Catching?
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
On 2001/01/08 16:13, Mystress Angelique Serpent posted thus to the K-list:
At 03:59 AM 1/8/01, Samantha Atkins wrote:
>Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> >
> > At 08:59 PM 1/7/01, Samantha Atkins wrote:
> > >Did I mention being a double Gemini and quite mercurial? :) Today I am
> > >in a more skeptical/testing mode so please bear with me.
> >
> > I have zero interest in being "tested", and less patience with
> > skeptics who want to use science to disprove mythology. My position is
> > faith based, based on my own experience, what is resonant for me. Your
> > mileage may vary.
> > Science is only another kind of mythology. Scientists believe in things
> > they cannot see or prove, too. Arguing science with mythology is absurd..
>
>I am not "testing" you.
That was the word you used.. and I think, it was no accident. You are
testing my patience and my willingness to play the same logic games that
made you unpopular in other spiritual groups.
> I am attempting to ground words and experiences
>and intuitions where I can begin to shift out what is most likely to be
>so. I need to do this both with my own experience and with the
>experiences and ideas of others. I ask questions that bother me, not
>to "test" you. Faith is no excuse for getting the science wrong when
>you refer to scientific things. Science is NOT another kind of
>mythology. It rests very much on testability except in some of its
>philsophical bases.
So you believe, and that belief makes it true for you. Things often
happen at my house for which there is no scientific explanation. Miracles
abound. Thus, I find science to be of very limited use, and faith to be
more useful.
> > >There is no mechanism by which the
> > >DNA changes that produce one species would travel backward to an earlier
> > >species and become parts of its DNA that I am aware of.
> >
> > Who said they did?
>
>Then I am at a loss as to how it would be possible for very much simpler
>types of organisms to share 95% of our DNA.
Beats me. I'm just quoting the scientists.
>Metaphors make some sense but isn't this just pointing out that the
>metaphor more or less may have the order of the appearance of various
>species right?
Yes.
>When I say there is no evidence for Creationism I refer
>to the package deal of young earth and humanity made all in a piece and
>separate frome everything else in some crucial way and dinosaurs either
>contemporaneous with us or a "trick of Satan" and all of that sort of
>thing.
I was not speaking of the politics, only of the Genesis story itself.
The creationists who make that argument would doubtless disagree with my
speculations about the possible length of God's day. They would probably
also disagree with my contention that DNA is the Serpent so maligned in
Genesis. However, to my mind it makes a lot more sense than, say, the Haida
creation story, that Raven created humans in a clamshell when he was bored
one day.
> > > There is no evidence at my
> > >disposal currently that all DNA on this planet is a collective
> > >consciousnes.
> >
> > ROTFLOL!!! There is no evidence that God exists, or that there is
> > any kind of collective consciousness. There is no evidence that Kundalini
> > itself exists. So what? What's your point?
>
>Really? Is there any evidence you exist? At least from your point of
>view?
Very little. I am not entirely convinced that I exist. It seems that I
don't, some of the time. I vanish. Nor am I terribly interested in proving
that I exist. It is very peaceful to be nothing. Do you believe that I exist?
>What I was attempting to dig for is how it can be known that all
>DNA on the planet is a collective consciousness and how one is certain
>of that knowing. Perhaps I used words that pushed too many buttons
>instead.
I'm not a catbox, either, for you to dig in if it suits you, when you
need to bury your shit. You want proof, ask your own DNA. Ask the GrandMother.
I am certain from my experiential knowing. Can I prove it? No. The
learning is experiential, as are much of the insights that come with K. Do
you know what is the sound of one hand clapping? I do. Can I explain it or
prove it? No. Do I care? No.
Your button pushing is quite deliberate, a manipulative game you play,
and defend with feigned innocence. Perhaps it is not feigned, perhaps the
ego is so thick you believe it. Half the list knew you were pushing for a
spanking. Shall we take a poll?
>Yes, I have talked to a tree, or thought at the time that I did at
>least. It seemed very slow thinking but grand in its long overview of
>happenings around it. I seemed to feel the wind and pick up what was
>going on around it through its leaves shimmering in the breeze. It had
>a dignity, peace and joy. It very much centered me. Other times there
>is a wild charged-ness feeling I get from trees.
Lovely, isn't it?
>I do pick up some things but I have enough experience to have seen many
>things my intuition said or seemed to say were turn out to be wrong.
>Therefore I require a bit more than just an appeal to intuition in order
>to believe some things.
I work it the other way.. I believe things, they become true for me.
Other folks believe them, they become true for them too.. miracles result.
This is the faith behind Rule #1. The power of belief to shape reality.
> Especially when it is someone else's intuition
>that is being reported. Do you say that everything that seems true to
>intuition is always true? How can I know when to trust my intuition and
>when to quesiton it? This is a very honest and important question to
>me.
Sometimes it appears that intuition is wrong, however I think that is
not the flaw of intuition, but of me not hearing the message clearly. My
own misinterpretation.
In my experience, the more you choose to trust intuition, the more
accurate it becomes. Trusting is often a leap of faith, but belief does
shape reality, so the leaps are usually worthwhile. Personally, I find
intuition much more valuable than logic. Intuition manifests things that
logic insists are impossible.
Logic and science both insist that for me to vanish, or to time travel
to cure "incurable" diseases, or for things to disappear from one place and
reappear in another, is impossible.. yet, I have experienced all these
things. So, screw logic and science, it is too limited to be of use. LOL!!!
Altho I do appreciate some of the benefits of science.. my computer, for
example. I take the science and use it for my own purposes..
> > It is easy to tear down any statement someone can make. Simply to do so
> > because you are in a "mood" is usually considered rude. Respect for other
> > paths is a list guideline. I am sharing my path.
>
>I am asking. Sorry if you experience that as "tearing down". Why is it
>wrong to ask? Is asking itself rude? Is questioning rude?
Asking for proof of a faith based paradigm that obviously cannot be
proven, is very rude. Silly, too. It cannot be proven that there is a
collective consciousness, so obviously asking me to prove that collective
consciousness is manifest in DNA is rude and silly. It is resonant for me,
and so I shared it. Your mileage may vary.
>That is certainly reasonable for many things. But I don't think all
>things are that subjective.
From a faith based position, everything really is that subjective.
Everything you see, is a mirror of your own self, of your individual
beliefs. Maya, illusion. The evidence of your eyes and ears, of all your
senses gets filtered through your unconscious, which shapes the information
according to your individual reality tunnel.
There is some consensus reality, which we all believe.. the sky is
blue. Is it blue to a cat, or to a colorblind person? Maybe not. So, is the
sky really blue, or does it simply appear blue, to some people who make it
true by being the majority? It is raining here.. the sky appears grey and
white. I have memories of it being blue, but are those memories real? If
time and space do not truly exist, what is memory?
I spent some time as assistant to a stage hypnotist.. watching people's
subjective reality change with the wave of a hand.. as individuals, and as
groups.. The unconscious truly does have the power to alter the appearance
of reality.. so, what is reality?
> And it is difficult to understand someone's
>position and words without asking what is meant occasionally and why
>that person believes that it is so.
Can you prove that there is any kind of collective consciousness?
>I am trying to understand it. My claws, if I were trying to only
>sharpen them, would have been much sharper than the few questions I
>asked. Your words both resonate in places and hit other places where I
>am less than certain that my own similar intuitions/experiences are
>trustworthy. It isn't you who are the target but my own lack of
>certainty.
OK..
>As I said, it seems to have no purpose. But no, I can't prove it
>directly. I can possibly dig out studies where they removed or replaced
>sections of the DNA like this with no apparent effect on the organism
>produced.
Apparent, I guess is the key word.. appearances can lie. They are
subjective. Unless you are the organism that has had it's DNA mucked with,
how can you really know? So it is a belief, not a "Truth".
> > Want to test my DNA? I'll be happy to send you a sample.
>That might be interesting but I am unfortunately not qualified to
>competently test DNA.
That is too bad, as the aliens have asked me to get it tested.. they
want to prove to me that I am not completely human. I cannot think what use
this proof would be, or what I would like the outcome to be.. or how to go
about getting it done..
>Do you believe everything that every shaman says? Probably not. We
>have minds for a reason. How do you decide?
My mind does not decide much of anything, it is usually a pretty quiet
place. My heart and my gut decide for me. As Goddess Wills. Certainly we
have minds, and sometimes we are even silly enough to use them. We have
them so that we have the option for free will and ego-separation.. and
sometimes we are silly enough to use that, too.
>Thanks. I'll check that one out. I know a lot of things will glow blue
>under an electric charge of some types (St Elmo's fire?).
www.danwinter.com
> > :) Can you prove it? No? And what is it you are wanting me to prove,
> > then?? Shall I sharpen my claws on your experiential mythology?
>
>Now who is it that wants a bit of a fight and a claw sharpening anyway?
>:)
Not at all. I am simply reflecting your attitude back at you, so you
can know how it feels. How do you like it? It feels to you, like your
demands for proof it feel to me.. claw sharpening and asking for a fight.
Aggressive.
You are asking me to prove my intuitive knowing.. I cannot, and neither
can you. So, why do you ask? No-one can give you faith in your intuition.
You have to find it, within yourself.
Or, as they say in the Matrix, "I can open the door, but you have to
walk through it." I was watching the Matrix with it's paradigms of
artificial intelligence gone awry, the night you dreamt of it. I was
responding to your post, poking at your attachment to logic, last night
when you felt your third eye twitching.. The twitch was a blockage that
limits your perceptions. So, we are connected? But according to logic and
science, that is not possible. Regardless, is it true?
A few months ago I was reworking the whole paradigm of the "Machine
mind" in the collective consciousness.. <shrug> Been there done that.
Everything is already conscious, it is all Goddess. My computer is self aware.
If you go to work creating A I with the doom fearing paradigms you
spouted to Paul, I think you will probably make a mess.. but, it is your
universe...
>I am trying here to say simply that I do understand and hear what you
>are saying even though I sometimes doubt I know what these things do and
>don't mean or how accurate they are. That's all. Well, not quite all,
>I would very much like to know when to trust intuition (of myself or
>others) and when to test it. And I would like to know the relative
>place and usage of reason and intuition or your and the groups views on
>this question.
On this level, linear time based history and mythology, my view is that
of the quote from "The Cosmic Serpent". We went though an age of reason,
which is identified in mythology as when Zues killed Typhon, and when the
authors of Geneisis made the Sumerian creation Serpent into the "Bad Guy"
of their story.
I believe this present age is one where it is time for reason to be
superseded by intuition.
I am named for that Cosmic Serpent, it is sacred to me on the level
where names have importance and things are sacred or not-sacred. On another
level I am nameless infinite nothing, and everything is sacred and nothing
is real.
Reason is a very limited faculty. It can only come to conclusions based
on what it knows, and that capacity for knowing is limited, and subject to
the vagaries of individual reality tunnels manifesting subjective beliefs.
Intuition is not similarly limited. It encompasses knowing that cannot be
gathered or understood by logic. I often *know* things that logically I
cannot know, yet they turn out to be true.
On another level of my being, nothing is true, nothing is real,
everything is true, if you want to believe it. I am not attached to any
paradigms, including those I spout when requested to do so, as I was, by
Carol. I find some paradigms are more useful than others, for the purposes
of expanding consciousness, and I share the ones that have been useful to me.
I traded in logic, in favor of intuition years ago, when I realized
that in exchange for giving up what most people call "sanity", setting
aside the box of logic and certainty and the rigid rules that most folks
use to define "reality", I would access the power of miracles.
I realized that art creates life and life creates art and in an infinite
universe everything that can exist, must exist, somewhere and some when.
Therefore truth must then always be stranger than fiction, reality wilder
than anything we could invent... because our minds cannot hold the
infinite. My mind was trying to encompass the infinite universe when I was
13 years old, and I could not, no matter how I stretched. Yet, we can *be*
the infinite.. which is not a knowing, but a Beingness that transcends all
words and logic.
It was a leap of faith that made me vibrate, that gave me expansive joy,
and I have absolutely no regrets. Certainty, I have very little, because a
mind that is made up becomes rigid and inflexible. That is the nature of
ego. Once someone is certain they know something, they become closed to new
ideas.. like the creationists who argue that Dinosaur bones are the work of
Satan. For them it is true. It is not true for me, but that does not make
my "truth" superior to theirs in the larger picture.
Thus, a Zen Koan is deliberately confusing, because confusion of old
ideas is necessary to make way for new insights.
Enlightenment is not logical. The infant "science" of psychology cannot
comprehend the mind of the Mystic, so it labels "insane" that which it
cannot understand. Do I care? No.
I have encountered many people who insist on logic and certainty.. and
if they like to live in a box, then they can have it. If they become
awakened, then eventually they must surrender it, because limitless
manifestation is bigger than all of our ideas of religion, logic and
science, including my own.
My Tarot card is 0. Nothingness. The Cosmic Fool. One foot on land,
one foot in the air, poised eternally in a leap of faith, between death and
life, air and land.. time and timelessness. Eyes to the sun, led by the
little barking dog that is instinct. I know nothing, but if people want
paradigms then I will storytell a story, and if they find it resonant and
choose to believe it, then it will become true for them.
When I set out to manifest the Tantra course, I had to purpose-build a
"Teacher-ego" to do the work because egolessness had no dogma to spout, no
rigid beliefs about anything... I was accustomed to being the reflection of
whoever was in front of me, in the moment, channelling their own higher
guidance to tell them whatever they needed to hear, to grow. Gleefully
contradicting myself from one post to the next, if that was what served.
That teaching style was completely unworkable, to manifest a "Truth"
that would be reflective of the many. I had to create a custom built
teacher ego in order to manifest teachings that transcend the individual.
The universe is contradictory. The rules that work in one dimensional
chakra level may work the opposite, in the next one up, or be meaningless.
So what is "true" is entirely subjective depending on what chakra-level
universe you are operating from. I operate from all of them, and can only
continue to do so, if I remain attached to nothing. Thus, I have little
motive to offer "proof".
When the work of writing the course was done, I dismantled the Teacher
ego. My beloveds observed the change.. that I was no longer the same woman
as the one who wrote the course. I have no need to "prove" anything that is
written there. It is all thought experiments. It is not about what is
"true" or what is not "true". It is about what beliefs will guide you to a
reality tunnel that is more useful and enjoyable, bigger than the reality
tunnel you are in, now. Realty selection, the navigational system of belief.
Rule # 1 is a leap of faith that pays dividends.. If you choose to
believe it, then it will become true for you and your reality will change
to make it true, and provide evidence in miracles that defy logic. If you
don't like the change, you can always change your mind back again.
Well, not always.. heh heh.. you might get too big to fit back into the
box. :)
I have had many students who wore me out, asking for proof of faith
based paradigms.. arguing endlessly to the point where demands for proof
appear to me, to be vampiric energy sucking aggression.. as they did, to
you when I reflected it back to you.
If you were doing the same with all the other spiritual groups you
joined, asking for proof for what is a leap of faith, then I'm not
surprised they decided you were resistant and became impatient with your
questions.
Does finding logical loopholes to avoid making a leap of faith make
you feel more powerful? I have known a lot of subs who had various methods
to take their power back, after a scene.. and the methods were usually not
consensual, even tho the scene was. Everything from claiming victimhood,
after I had done as they asked, to choosing to be disappointed. Sour grapes
attitude is not submission. Either way, it is a choice of belief that
cannot be denied by logic.
You agreed to play a consensual game of follow the leader, joining
other groups, then chose instead to take your power back by sharpening your
skeptic claws on the dogma and arguing logical loopholes. Was it
consensual, or were you simply acting out to feed on their attention? Their
impatient reaction suggests that it was not consensual. You agreed to play
the game, then chose not to follow the rules. So you blame the rules? You
knew them, going in.
If there is proof, then it is not a leap of faith. QED. The value is
in the leap, not in the logic. If you truly wanted to live by logic, then
you would not be awakened.
Richard Bach said it very well, "Argue for your limitations, you get to
keep them". You want to keep them, go ahead. Wanting me to provide proof
for what is a leap of faith is pointless. No-one can take your attachments
if you are not willing to surrender them.
Proof is not the point. It is the leap of faith, that makes the reality
shift.. your choice to believe or not believe is within you. Nothing I can
say will change your mind about what you choose to believe. Free Will is
Goddess law.. it is up to you to make the leap or back away and go find a
leap you like better.
Blessings....
http://www.domin8rex.com
Vancouver, B.C., Canada.
Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
:D ;) :0 :) ;P ;) :D ;) 8D :)
I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
~ Harry Emerson Fosdick
_
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
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