To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/01/08 04:59
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Is Evolution Catching?
From: Samantha Atkins
On 2001/01/08 04:59, Samantha Atkins posted thus to the K-list:
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
>
> At 08:59 PM 1/7/01, Samantha Atkins wrote:
> >Did I mention being a double Gemini and quite mercurial? :) Today I am
> >in a more skeptical/testing mode so please bear with me.
>
> I have zero interest in being "tested", and less patience with
> skeptics who want to use science to disprove mythology. My position is
> faith based, based on my own experience, what is resonant for me. Your
> mileage may vary.
> Science is only another kind of mythology. Scientists believe in things
> they cannot see or prove, too. Arguing science with mythology is absurd..
>
I am not "testing" you. I am attempting to ground words and experiences
and intuitions where I can begin to shift out what is most likely to be
so. I need to do this both with my own experience and with the
experiences and ideas of others. I ask questions that bother me, not
to "test" you. Faith is no excuse for getting the science wrong when
you refer to scientific things. Science is NOT another kind of
mythology. It rests very much on testability except in some of its
philsophical bases.
> >There is no mechanism by which the
> >DNA changes that produce one species would travel backward to an earlier
> >species and become parts of its DNA that I am aware of.
>
> Who said they did?
>
Then I am at a loss as to how it would be possible for very much simpler
types of organisms to share 95% of our DNA.
> > Natural
> >Selection is only one of the methods by which evoluion, changes in the
> >genetic structure of a population over time, takes place. Which two
> >coming together? Creationism has zero evidence in its favor.
>
> Actually, if you consider that we cannot know the length of God's
> "day" it makes some sense. The Genesis story does approximately follow the
> order of creation as we know it.
>
Metaphors make some sense but isn't this just pointing out that the
metaphor more or less may have the order of the appearance of various
species right? When I say there is no evidence for Creationism I refer
to the package deal of young earth and humanity made all in a piece and
separate frome everything else in some crucial way and dinosaurs either
contemporaneous with us or a "trick of Satan" and all of that sort of
thing.
> > There is no evidence at my
> >disposal currently that all DNA on this planet is a collective
> >consciousnes.
>
> ROTFLOL!!! There is no evidence that God exists, or that there is
> any kind of collective consciousness. There is no evidence that Kundalini
> itself exists. So what? What's your point?
Really? Is there any evidence you exist? At least from your point of
view? What I was attempting to dig for is how it can be known that all
DNA on the planet is a collective consciousness and how one is certain
of that knowing. Perhaps I used words that pushed too many buttons
instead.
>
> > That it sometimes feels this way to my intuition is not
> >enough for me to believe this at this time or to believe that a tree is
> >every bit as conscious and self-aware as we are.
>
> Ever talk to a tree? Ask it if it is self aware.
> I'm sorry you do not have faith in your intuition, but that is hardly
> a reason to go after my beliefs. Resolve it within yourself.
>
Yes, I have talked to a tree, or thought at the time that I did at
least. It seemed very slow thinking but grand in its long overview of
happenings around it. I seemed to feel the wind and pick up what was
going on around it through its leaves shimmering in the breeze. It had
a dignity, peace and joy. It very much centered me. Other times there
is a wild charged-ness feeling I get from trees.
I do pick up some things but I have enough experience to have seen many
things my intuition said or seemed to say were turn out to be wrong.
Therefore I require a bit more than just an appeal to intuition in order
to believe some things. Especially when it is someone else's intuition
that is being reported. Do you say that everything that seems true to
intuition is always true? How can I know when to trust my intuition and
when to quesiton it? This is a very honest and important question to
me.
> >I do not know how separate primitive cultures end up with very similar
> >creation stories although common human experience and needs might cover
> >part of it. But it doesn't follow that this unexplained correlation is
> >because there is a Cosmic Kundalini snake embedded in everyone's
> >consciousness. For one thing, a lot more than just snake symbolism is
> >shared by many cultures.
>
> I wonder who you are arguing with? Mythology?
> Kundalini is inherent potential in every person. It is often described
> as a Serpent. There is no proof that it exists. So what? Do you have a
> better explanation?
> It is easy to tear down any statement someone can make. Simply to do so
> because you are in a "mood" is usually considered rude. Respect for other
> paths is a list guideline. I am sharing my path.
>
I am asking. Sorry if you experience that as "tearing down". Why is it
wrong to ask? Is asking itself rude? Is questioning rude?
> >DNA is only part of what makes you you.
>
> You want to rehash the whole nature/nurture argument? It has not been
> conclusively resolved by anyone so far.. thus, it remains in the realm of
> opinion. Not fact.
> What is a fact, is that I have this quote from Osho on page 1 of the
> Tantra course preview.
>
> "Always remember, whatsoever I say to you, you can take it in two ways. You
> can simply take it on my authority, 'Because I say so, it must be true' --
> then you will suffer, then you will not grow. Whatsoever I say, listen to
> it, try to understand it, implement it in your life, see how it works, and
> then come to your own conclusions. They may be the same, they may not be.
> They can never be exactly the same because you have a different
> personality, a unique being. Whatsoever I am saying is my own. It is bound
> to be in deep ways rooted in me. You may come to similar conclusions, but
> they cannot be exactly the same. So my conclusions should not be made your
> conclusions. You should try to understand me, you should try to learn, but
> you should not collect knowledge from me, you should not collect
> conclusions from me. Then your mind-body will grow.
> My message is not a doctrine, not a philosophy. My message is a certain
> alchemy, a science of transformation." Osho.
>
That is certainly reasonable for many things. But I don't think all
things are that subjective. And it is difficult to understand someone's
position and words without asking what is meant occasionally and why
that person believes that it is so.
> You are not trying to understand it, you are simply using it to sharpen
> your skeptic's claws on. I'm not your scratching post, kitty.
>
I am trying to understand it. My claws, if I were trying to only
sharpen them, would have been much sharper than the few questions I
asked. Your words both resonate in places and hit other places where I
am less than certain that my own similar intuitions/experiences are
trustworthy. It isn't you who are the target but my own lack of
certainty.
> > Some DNA in ALL human beings
> >(not just males), known as transposons, is silent. It seems to not
> >produce anything in human beings that we know of. If we arose by
> >evolution it is to be expected that quite a bit of DNA would be
> >left-over junk that has been de-activated over time but that does no
> >harm anything enough being there to have been eliminated by natural
> >selection and is thus copied and passed along like all of the rest.
>
> Can you prove it has no purpose?
>
As I said, it seems to have no purpose. But no, I can't prove it
directly. I can possibly dig out studies where they removed or replaced
sections of the DNA like this with no apparent effect on the organism
produced.
> >There is no evidence I know of that people with K experience have any of
> >that other DNA activated although there has been speculation about it.
>
> There is no evidence Kundalini itself exists, but we still have a list
> about it.
> Want to test my DNA? I'll be happy to send you a sample.
>
That might be interesting but I am unfortunately not qualified to
competently test DNA.
> >There is no evidence that some alien race hid themselves in our genetic
> >structure although it is certainly a clever way to lay low for quite
> >some time.
>
> LOL!! Tell it to the Ayathusca Shaman. You are arguing with
> mythology. Want to try to prove Zeus did not exist, next? That Kali is a
> figment of imagination? Have fun at it.
>
Do you believe everything that every shaman says? Probably not. We
have minds for a reason. How do you decide?
> > > What scientists think is your dormant DNA is actually a multiple
> > > redundancy system. Encoded into that system is all of your vast potential
> > > for miracles. Now how does DNA connect with Kundalini?
> >
> >Any evidence?
>
> Can you prove that it is not? Do you have a better explanation?
>
> > And it is through our
> > > DNA, through that piezio-electrical, vibrational exchange going on inside
> > > of us, there's an aspect of how we become unified with all life on this
> > > planet. We talked about the Kundalini serpents.
> >
> >What piezo-electric exchange is this?
>
> DNA vibrates when charged, giving off piezioelectric light. The Fire
> of the Serpent. Want proof? Go talk to Dan Winter. I am a Shaman, not a
> scientist.. but I do glow blue when charged. :)
>
Thanks. I'll check that one out. I know a lot of things will glow blue
under an electric charge of some types (St Elmo's fire?).
> >I have intuitively experienced walking through generation after
> >generation of women back to pre-history. I have looked out of their
> >eyes and known their cares and the sometimes horrible decisions that it
> >fell to them to make for the good of their people and of their
> >children's children's children. I have experienced the Grand-Mother. I
> >understand why the Mother gave way to the Sky God for a time at an
> >intuitive level.
>
> :) Can you prove it? No? And what is it you are wanting me to prove,
> then?? Shall I sharpen my claws on your experiential mythology?
>
Now who is it that wants a bit of a fight and a claw sharpening anyway?
:)
I am trying here to say simply that I do understand and hear what you
are saying even though I sometimes doubt I know what these things do and
don't mean or how accurate they are. That's all. Well, not quite all,
I would very much like to know when to trust intuition (of myself or
others) and when to test it. And I would like to know the relative
place and usage of reason and intuition or your and the groups views on
this question.
- samantha
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
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