To: K-list
Recieved: 2001/01/01 02:20
Subject: Re: [K-list] my experiences.Normal? .. Ben .. 2
From: Christopher Wynter
On 2001/01/01 02:20, Christopher Wynter posted thus to the K-list:
At 07:35 PM 1/01/01, you wrote:
> > Isn't the concept of "illusion" an act of denial
> > of the fact that the five primary senses are
> > telling us what within us needs to be healed
>
>CW
>
>Before this can be understood you may take a few steps back and analyses
>what you have just written. You see illusion as something negative, but this
>is not the case.
Why did you read this into what I wrote..?
>Can you explain how complete bliss or unconditional love
>can illusion too? Can you explain how winning the lottery or enjoying a good
>week can be illusion to?.
So, this experience also is one that needs to be healed .. as I wrote ...
>So let us look at both side here. It is the
>lifting of maya that leads to the lose of sorrow, not the creation of more
>of it.
Please do not use words that have no meaning or resonance to the genetic
English speaking body .. These are the signs of Knowledge .. not of Wisdom.
I did ask you for your words .. I would like to hear what Ben has to say .. not
what I can read in some text he has quoted .. especially when I can read the
original Tibetan and Sanskrit .. and have no need to resort to English
translitrations.
>At the same time it leads to loss of happiness, but there is a
>replacement for both, much more than any earthly experience can explain.
>This is the higher plane. It voids out the lower experiences. Such as the
>primary senses.
You are here in a body .. on Earth. Thus there is a role for the primary
senses.
From experience, ignoring the physical body will only lead to immediate
reincarnation .. because the soul (so called) needs a physical body in
order to clear several of its densities.
This I know from the experience and the full remembering of having been
clinically dead on three occasions in this life time. You see, I had to come
back to a body to clear the lower elements of the pentad .. because this
cannot be done in the non physical realms ..
>I used the Tibetan Tantric teachings to get where I am today. I find that
>there work is much well presented.
In what language did you read the Tantra ..
I learned mine without words ..
from the Tibetans .. in the caves ..
>To the point that many academics such as
>Carl Jung devoted plenty of time to them. What you are asking me to explain
>to something very complex and can take years of study to comprehend. Since I
>take it that this class/group has some experience or a lot of experience I
>will try anyhow.
No ..
it takes no time at all .. just the removal of everything one has learned.
A PhD or other academic qualification is actually an impediment.
>The objective of knowing the mind in it's nakedness, or full enlightenment,
>or the lifting of maya, or the greatest possible liberation, while alive, as
>expounded on by Jesus, Buddha and many others is that of 'Transcendence over
>the transitory'.
What does this mean to you in your life ..
Jesus and the Buddha were simple men who said very little ..
>If you do not know what some of the words mean look them
>up. There are a number of ways to do this. One of the more popular methods
>is self-psychoanalysis. One of the more popular methods of this is yoga.
>There are many yogas and one of the more popular methods are deep
>psychological yogas of the Mahayana type.
I did not say I did not know the meaning of the words .. I asked you
what it meant to you .. I can quote the books as easily as you can ..
but can you talk of your experience in words that are not of the books ..?
>Within this yoga we find a number of thinking processes that help us to
>attain the objectives listed above. One must mentate on things like what is
>karma? Karma is the sum of a person's actions, esp. intentional actions,
>regarded as determining that person's future states of existence. But karma
>itself is transitory and needs to be transcended. In fact man is transitory
>by his/her very nature. That too much be transcended. There is much that
>requires transcendence.
There is no-thing that requires one to rise over it ..
people often forget that for one thing to exist,
the opposite must also exist ..
when one finds .. and merges the opposites of the pair,
neither exists separately .. the essence of Tantra .. and Yoga
transcendance merely shifts the fulcrum of the pendulum
so that what used to exist still does .. in another time and space
>What we find is that many opposites are in fact the same thing seen from 2
>different view points, including the act of judgement. When things, an
>objects are seen to be one then ego is lost and generally there are no
>further judgements made, but there is discrimination.
If the ego were lost, you would have no existence within the whole.
The whole is the sum of the parts .. just as one facet does not make
a diamond, so a diamond does not exist without its facets.
>I will leave it at that for the time being CW. If you see anything here that
>you would like to know more please ask and I will try to incorporate an
>answer in your last question as this moves along.
If all one does is try,
then all one ends up being
is trying
CW
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