To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/11/21 02:45
Subject: [K-list] Dr. Trasi's "Basic Tenets of Advaita" Point 4:
From: Wim Borsboom
On 2000/11/21 02:45, Wim Borsboom posted thus to the K-list:
Hi all,
http://www.here-now4u.de/eng/advaita_and_science_.htm
http://personal.vsnl.com/ntrasi/
If what Dr. Trasi writes has to do with the science
and enlightenment, I would expect a sharper
scientific mind and more illumination.
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
| If these articles were about something trivial |
| I would ignore them. |
| But we are talking here about |
| physicality, reality, existence, soul, god, you, I. |
| We can hardly afford to be careless |
| with the use of words. |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
THE CONCLUSION OF THIS POST IS A BIT DRASTIC.
MAYBE SOLSTICE IS HITTING ME EARLY,
OR SOME BURST OF SOLAR FLARES
IS BOTHERING ME A BIT TOO MUCH.
FORGIVE ME IF I AM TOO FIERY AND
SHORT ON COMPASSION
I am onto something.
"I am not paranoid" I said to my pursuer.
"Yes you are, I am not really after you."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
So here goes:
Point 4 as quoted from Dr. Trasi's "Basic Tenets of Advaita":
>>> 'We', as the separate individual entities that we unquestioningly take
ourselves to be, are also not different from Brahman or the Source. Our
sense of being separate psychological entities each with our own separate
individual consciousness, IS AN ILLUSION caused by our defective way of
thinking. This delusory power of our thinking is termed maya. <<<
There definitely could be something 'strange' produced by a defect that our
thinking may have picked up. But instead of investigating what the nature of
the defect is, and what may have caused that defect, Trasi discusses what
the alleged defect produces. He is then very messy in defining the results
of the defect with a choice of seemingly similar words of which the meanings
are very different indeed: 'illusion' and 'delusory'.
The whole paragraph is actually very messy.
>>>>. 'We', as the separate individual entities that we unquestioningly take
ourselves to be, are also not different from Brahman or the Source. Our
sense of being separate psychological entities each with our own separate
individual consciousness.... <<<<
First he mentions: "separate individual entities." Then he uses the
expression: "separate psychological entities." Well what is it?
"Separate individual entities" may well refer to physical, unsplittable
entities, indivisible ones, individuals, human bodies.The other expression
"separate psychological entities" could refer to psychological
personality-disorder concepts. A "separate psychological entity" is
definitely not the same as a "separate individual entity" in the proper
sense of the words. Psychologically an individual can definitely be split
into different personalities but not into different individuals. We would
lose our life if we were to split our individuality, would we not?
>>>'We', as the separate individual entities that we unquestioningly take
ourselves to be, are also not different from Brahman or the Source. <<<
In this context, Brahman cannot be an _individual_ entity, indivisible. If
that were so, "the separate individual entities that we unquestioningly take
ourselves to be," can not be "not different" from Brahman, even if we do
*exist* in some psychological form of separation whether from defective
thinking or not.
If Brahman is "the Source" then that source like 'a river', may produce many
different streams in its delta. It may all be water and one source, all
under one name e.g. the Meh Kong and its delta, but there is no doubt about
the different geographic locations of the streams.
>>>...our own separate individual consciousness, IS AN ILLUSION caused by
our defective way of thinking. This delusory power of our thinking is termed
maya. <<<<
Illusions are not delusory. Illusions are not delusions
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
| Now this difference in meaning between |
| these words would not matter too much if the |
| topic was trivial. But we are talking here about |
| reality, existence, God, you, me, I. |
| We can hardly afford to be messy |
| with the use of words. |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
. Illusion has an illuminating connotation. It is actually something
positively energetic that our brain can do... and our thoughts and
thought-forms absorb, reflect and/or project that light. Illumination can
shed light. Even if it is illusive in the usual flawed sense of the word, it
can still produce insight on and about "maya".
Maya is that which is 'measurable' when, as, how, with what intensity and
where we shed light upon it.
E=Maya= M.C squared.
This is science,
This is experience,
This 'makes' sense.
. Delusion has a shady, de-luminating connotation. It takes light away,
it leaves one in the dark. It creates separation, excommunication, we
exclude deluded people, we shut them away and up.
Delusion affects our brain affectivity and our thinking negatively.
Aha!!!!
It is the cause of defective thinking.
Delusion undernourishes the brain, it creates unclarity, doubt, suffering,
mental defects.
>>>...is an illusion caused by our defective way of thinking. This delusory
power of our thinking is termed maya. <<<
Who causes our "...defective way of thinking. This delusory power of our
thinking..."?
NOT MAYA
Who causes delusion, or illusion (if you want to use the flawed meaning of
the word)?
Somebody who threatens to "kick the living daylight out of you" if you do
not succumb to their abuse and violations, divulge those or blow the
whistle.
How do I know?
Because it happened to me.
The following is a bit heavy and I am almost tempted not to send it, but I
shall.
Brahman (later deified) was tempted to sacrifice his son.
(I remember some of that, 'akashik'ly.)
Abraham was about to sacrifice his son Isaac.
(He was told to, luckily he got stopped.)
My father was about to burn me.
(I remember that, he was beside himself, got stopped just in time)
My brother was about to kill me.
(I remember that, had to do with mercy and grace.)
I was ALMOST about to do this others.
when I was in a states of delusion
nothing was real
all was a dream
it did not matter
as matter did not matter
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The following are quotes from Trasi and my deliberations The quotes are
somewhat out of context, but not too much. I want to be fair.
Maybe I am somewhat unfair, but I will try it anyway. I need to work this
out.
I know I am onto something, I want to understand psychopathic and
sociopathic behaviour, I was too close to that, the temptation in my 40 days
of desert.
Quotes:
>>> God is not a person - 'God' in Advaita refers to this same impersonal,
indefinable force. <<<
Could this mean, that such a God could hide behind impersonality, so as not
to be known as the 'killer' of the individual soul or the physical being.
Reminds me of Yahweh in Eden who was introducing death into Adam and Eve's
life.
>>>This force cannot be accurately described in words, and so any
description must be accepted with that caveat. In fact 'we' are mere
apparitions, illusions, which arise in the body-minds during the process of
seeing<<<
This seems like what could go through the mind of a psychopathic killer who
is deluded and tries to desensitize his guilt to justify his actions as not
having physical consequences in reality.
>>>Now we can understand why the scriptures repeatedly state that the
Reality cannot be known. <<<
Can this also mean that some ancient writers did not want us to know the
extent of our (filled with fear) realities, that befell us when we
experienced being violated, doomed or 'killed' (I remember one hanging). We
are supposed to forget who the violator really is.
>>>As there is no separate soul, there can be no question of either free
will or of rebirth<<<
A psychopath or sociopath could think this as well to clear some kind of
conscience.
Why do advaita type of philosophies attempt to deny physical existence, what
is behind all this?
I remember my deluded states, good thing I had these angels (ancestors)
looking over my shoulders.
Thanksgivings Day.
Love, Wim
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