To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/11/20 12:22
Subject: Re: [K-list] double dutch
From: José Hoekstra
On 2000/11/20 12:22, José Hoekstra posted thus to the K-list:
Wow this is funny reading about the dutch all the time!
I agree on this deep sense of sin. I come from a family where my grandfather
already left the reformed church early, and became a member of the
theosophical society (met Krishnamurti in the 30-ies!). My grandmother did
not practice religion anymore then, my mother did not, my aunt is mainly
humanistic and my niece again went to the theosophical society. Our bible
was used to press flowers - worked well in such a thick book. I knew nothing
about it all, did not believe in god, and felt free to go totally for
buddhism.
Only years later I started to realize that calvinism is everywhere, and my
grandmothers morals, deep feelings of shame and guilt sunk into the bones of
my system. I'm slowly getting rid of them - as far as I can.
I've tried to work in psychiatry with dancetherapy, but often find they
rather have sports. Dance is scary to many, sports have a goal and are more
acceptabel. The shame around the body and sexuality - clearly expressed in
dance - is still big. Now I work with workshops where women choose to come
and dance, and it's great to see them melt.
(when I was in Indonesia, I could always recognize the older dutch tourists,
as compared to others: many older dutch women have their shoulders slightly
bent forward, as if they are hiding their breasts. Result of shame around
their body and sexuality)
Greetings from - muddy Amsterdam (endless rain and broken streets) Het houdt
maar niet op!
love,
José
>It's so nice to read here on this list how it is to be Dutch!
>Thank you Wim for your explanation :)
>and Jose, you brought back the memories of the time when I was 'young' and
still able to jump
>with the double ropes at school.....
>
>In case I did not know who I was, now I know a lot more about the details
;)
>Just kidding......
>
>I believe what is really true and common in the Dutch nature is the very
deep
>feeling of sin and what Wim called :'not deserving any grace'.
>
>As you wrote Wim, you were raised in a Catholic family and my family has
Calvinistic origins.
>We always had the impression that the Catholic part of the Dutch population
was not so
>'zwaar'. You had the possibility to go to church and to ask to be forgiven
almost every day as a child.
>(I also know the stories about the sins children had to imagine like: I
took some sugar from the 'suikerpot'),
>but you were allowed to walk and to bike and to swim on Sunday. And to buy
ice-creams!
>
>That were great topics to discuss about at school when I was a teenager.
:)))
>
>Greetings from a very rainy middle part of Holland,
>(do you count Rotterdam-Gouda-Utrecht to the 'dividing' or the 'northern'
part of Holland, Wim?)
>At least I am artistic :))
>
>with love,
>Herma
>
>
>
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