To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/11/20 00:52
Subject: [K-list] Manipulation, Masturbation, Volition (free will).
From: Wim Borsboom

Dear Christopher,

You wrote:
> Opposites only exist in the physical memory data bank
> because of an " if > then " loop
> based on an emotional outcome ..
> which is symptomatic of both
> manipulation and masturbation

I am willing to consider your thoughts on manipulation and masturbation as
"pretty right on" in our culture. Wonder though how much culture and 'the
morals of the times' are involved. Wonder how this plays in India, or how it
was in the old Greece (Socrates) where there is or was no comparable Western
moralistic judgment on this. Old Testament prohibition on 'Onany' was not
totally accepted in the Mid East. Would like to know how kids nowadays
process masturbative practices.

Any kids amongst you? See Michelle's request at the bottom of this post, she
is a kid for sure.

There was at the start of my last K period an immensely strong push to get
the masturbative part "unguilted" and always "successful into universal
bliss."
No 'if > then' in your terms nomore.
(Strong Vishnu involvement.)
The result of that was the return to or the recovery of 'the steady state of
innate bliss on all levels of being, and ... irreversible.'

I am still trying to understand the dynamics, so I can have others
participate...

You know, Christopher, that I contribute ALL suffering (which is not the
same as pain) to the 'if... then' dynamics of conditioning and
conditionality and thus eventually to manipulative control of the masses
with illusive promises and expectations.
'Manipulation' handling people <---manipulus=handful of men, or a group or
band of men gathered around a symbol (looks like a handful of straw). (Could
it come from a group of men pulling a straw rope to move large stones
building elements. Anyway that is beside the point. It is just fun to
sometimes speculate.)
Manipulation: as in "You will be worth your salt (salary) if you guys can
pull this off".
'Masturbation' may also come from group behaviour, turbulent that is;
turba=tribe. We can thank Julius Caesar for that from "De Bello Gallico".

> <INPUT DATA>
> Am I a masochist
> Am I a sadist
> Do I desire power over another
> Am I afraid of the consequence of power
>
> etcetera .. etcetera .. etcetera ..

I do follow you.
I seem to be on a different tack though. When I went through the 40 days of
temptation in my desert so to speak, the value and guidance of moral
conditioning totally disappeared. The outcome of my choice of being
constructive or destructive, Vishnu or Shiva (not connoting positive or
negative) was not dependent on doing morally good or bad, even the following
or not of guidelines or rules did not factor in, they were not even there.
Bliss or pleasure from what we call pain felt EXACTLY the same as bliss or
pleasure by more agreeable arousals or manipulations. I am sure that
Angelique and Percyval concur.

The outcome of my choice of action was by absolute free will... that is...
the free will of surrender to the Tao (for lack of another western word
other than Jesus' "I am the Way" in his "Via, Veritas, Vitaque"), so my
free will became surrender to Tao rather than that pseudo free will as in:
"This is a free country, I can do whatever I want,." meaning, "I can do
whatever I am compelled to do." No personal freedom of action in that
statement is there?
Don Juan at some point talks about 'the predilection of the warrior'. The
fearless warrior cannot do anything but do the right thing in the situation.
Using freedom as surrender, in this freedom the warrior has no choice but
doing the required. Krishna advises the same to Arjuna.

I'll leave it at this, time for hot chocolate. Michelle wants to phone the
local radio station and request a song for me and you .......The
DeVinyls.......I Touch Myself.

Night, night Christopher.

Love, Wim

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