To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/10/30 17:33
Subject: [K-list] Re: [HarshaSatsangh] Re: [NDS] Clear explanation
From: Wim Borsboom
On 2000/10/30 17:33, Wim Borsboom posted thus to the K-list:
Dear Tony,
Ah finally a response. Thank You! I have been trying to needle you often
enough. So here you are :)
Tony, do not take me wrong, I see you as a person who is really trying to
get it, you do hard work, you are daring. I appreciate you a lot. I love
your endeavour and energy.
But do you know that on the K. list I named a certain pathology after you:
'The Tony Syndrome.' ?You are suffering less from it now. :-) I mean this in
a humorous as well as serious way.
You wrote:
>First I am not dogmatic...
Somebody who does not quote from personal experience but quotes from sources
other than him/herself is in priciple dogmatic. To say "IMO" does not make
it undogmatic, as your opinion often sides with authorities other than you.
Even if Ramana is such a wonderful being, you peruse his opinion as more
important than your realization of self. You want to be what he is, attain
what he attained. That is not the same as self realization. At some point I
hope you won't give a hoot about Ramana. That is what he hoped too whenever
he asked, "Who is asking?"
Merriam-Webster's
"Dogma": Something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite
authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets c : a point of view or tenet
put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
> I thought I was having a discussion with some people.
You thought so, but were you reading, absorbing, digesting what they meant?
When ppl. write to you, they want to convince you of something they found
from personal inner experience. Something that they figure, would be good
for you to have personal inner insight in, so that self transformation or
realization may indeed be realized. They would like you to participate in
that same experience, that is communication, surrender into love. 'Dialogue'
is to be used not 'discussion'. Discussion is not necessarily dialogue.
Now you may think that that is the same as what you do... but you are not
witnessing from yourself. You are telling others that someone else (some
teacher or teaching) is important... But who cares? You are important! A far
as I am concerned you are more important than Sai Baba, or Ramana or me.
Thus paraphrasing Ramana's question, "What about your SELF?"
This is not primarily a quote forum, this is about who we are.
> Ramana says that 'Creation never happened'. Ajata vada, It is the
> jnanis experience that nothing ever comes into experience or ceases to
> be because the Self alone exists, as the sole unchanging reality. It
> is a corollary of this theory that time space cause and effect,
> essential components of creation theories, exist only in the minds of
> ajnanis and the experience of the Self reveals their non-existence.
>'p 181/2 'Be as you are'--David Godman.
So who cares? Unless you really take to heart, digest and absorb that last
line:
>'p 181/2 'Be as you are'--David Godman.
> I don't know whether Ramana was a bhodisattva, according to his story,
> he had reached a ripe point in a previous life and finished it off in
this one.
Anybody who does Ramana type work is bodhisattvic. You will too do that
work...
>My understanding of a bhodisattva is someone like Jesus, or
> Kwan Yin, who put off liberation at the point of moksha
'Nirvana' actually.
Moksha or liberation is a simple thing, one cannot really put that off, it
is one's eternal birthright, stronger even than the need for physical
survival. That is why you are so hard working at it. A real sadakha, you,
Tony you.
> With regard to me being a guru hopper, I only ever had two, Sai Baba
> in the flesh and Ramana's through his teachings.
That is two too many, you know that most of these guys always talk about the
inner guru.
I was a guru once. Hoppingly busy with guru hoppers, that is why I stopped.
> His writings were ghosted and most were lifted from
> other teachers like Vivekananda etc.
Maybe Sai Baba was a hopper himself.
> With regard to Sanskrit, it is not just my humble opinion but also
> people like Feuerstein, Isherwood, and others, the language contains
> specific words that are really not transferable in one word into other
> languages.
Who cares about Feuerstein and Isherwood. Opinions opinions. When it is
about your loving and lovable 'you', you will find common day-to-day english
language to express it. Just imagine yourself talking to you grandmother or
aunt about all this. When you are inspired you will transmit your truth in
easily absorbable words and appreciated loving actions. And you will not be
questioned!
I read Sanskrit as well, I have no trouble with it. But when possible I
would like to use mostly contemporary english words with some Dutch thrown
in (for my mother you see:). True, some Sanskrit words are already engrained
into our contemporary vocabulary, like Maya, Karma, Shakti, Bodhisatva,
Samadhi, Yoga, Sadhana. But don't we also notice that those words have
collected contemporary meanings that do not necessarily convey what they
originally meant. So I am a bit worried about the use of these words.
> I don't know what the Buddha meant, we only have writings after the
> fact, I am safer with Ramana etc.
I met the Buddha personally in some epiphany. Like you, I also I did not
want to depend on his editors. Epiphanies may not happen to many, but when
one surrenders to love and life unconditionally, these guys will pop in at
some point. (All of them in fact, through one and the same energy, the I
energy of SELF and ONE, the non separate and common I.)
> Lastly Wim, are you saying that you are a realised person, who has
> achieved or remembered moksha or liberation, just like Ramana. Is my
> understanding of what you are saying right? Is this your claim?
Yep!
But why do you care?
And who cares?
Anyway, yes. But I have something special... I am so free as to allow error
and stumbling,
admit to judgment and self judgement and other silly things.
Who cares though?
Who is caring?
You see I have nothing to lose.
And I do not care.
Who am I, as not to care?!
Who am I?
Do you care who I am or what or how or where or when?
Who am I?
Ask for yourself.
Love,
Wim
1/9698/6/_/680797/_/972951693/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.