To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/09/23 15:27
Subject: Re: [K-list] K and religion poll results
From: Druout
On 2000/09/23 15:27, Druout posted thus to the K-list:
Dear List,
Eleven people commented or responded to this poll.
To the Question: What religious
visions/associations/symbolisms/patterns/motifs, etc. have been part of your
K awakening?
Surprisingly, to me, animal and water motifs were prominant, with 3 people
mentioning visions of snakes. One person mentioned being visited by a Druid,
and another mentioned sacred sites. Instructions to read other religious
literature was mentioned by one person. Spiritual fairytales mentioned by
another.
Q: Did these reflect the religion of your upbringing (or your pre K
religion) or
did they reflect other religions or philosophies?
Four people said they were brought up as athiests or had no firm religious
beliefs during their upbringing, and three others wrote that their religious
beliefs had already undergone changes while growing up. On the whole, the
visions were totally unrelated to the religions that people were "born into."
A born Hindu had a vision of a Druid. Born Christians had visions of
snakes. Born Christians also experienced religious associations as diverse
as Hindu, Tibetan Buddhist, Zoroastrian, taoist and Islamic. Water symbols
were mentioned twice. Pantheistic dreams and "spiritual fairytales" were
also mentioned.
Q. Did these experiences influence a change in your religion?
Almost everyone had a change in how they *viewed* religion. Comments ranged
from their beliefs as being "less rigid" to the spritual experience being the
"antithesis" of religion. People generally saw religion differently, or now
understood religion. The idea, "The mystical is the root of Truth the same to
all religions.." or "I found it to be the same human spiritual process in
every religious
venue," seems a common theme.
Comments:
Question 1.
I have had so many spiritual dreams in the last year and a half since my K
awakening, they are what brought me to the Dream Doctor, who because of my
symptoms, brought me to the Kundalini Web site....I knew something Spiritual
was happening to me, I just didn't know what it was til then.
************
I think religion
is important in terms of the methods and signposts it provides which
assist each soul moving through its own unique journey. Any time-
tested tradition will do for the soul which is illuminating from
within. The soul will find what it needs, one way or another. If not
nearby, then eventually somewhere else.
*********
I grew
up in an atheistic home in a mainly Lutheran country.
There have been a few visions or it might be better to
call them lucid or shamanic dreams linked with
personal things. Very much like spiritual fairytales
with speaking pyramid shaped or other geometrical
figures, talking animals (a friendly snake, yes!) and
plants; also an orthodox Jew, laughing Osho and
Monkey the Great Sage (from the Chinese classic) have
had their roles.
*********
At the time it was the snake symbol. Not just in dreams but in my
thoughts I remember saying, 'I am not ready for the snake'. And on the
second day, it was beautiful cold February day and the snow had fallen the
night before and I was out shoveling snow and saw superimposed on the clear
blue sky an image of a coiled snake. Where in the world does this potent
image and symbology come from. It is different from a mystic religious
experience when one might 'see' images from ones religious beliefs. If I
had seen a vision of a Christ figure on a cross, would this have been
acceptable to my family. It certainly would fit into my frame of reference
and upbringing. But, what is amazing about K is that it appears from
reading Greenwell that it is relatively common for symbols of K to be
manifest without any preconditioning in this life. Mudras and sometimes
even Sanskrit words can be voiced without any prior knowledge. This process
either taps into a universal consciousness or perhaps we resurface memories
from past lives. It makes the experience more unquestionable for me. It
is clearly not something that I was trained to believe it is not following a
voice from outside it is listening to what is inside and uncovering
yourself. Or is it?
*********
I had a k-awakening in a dream , but a pretty simple dream.I was asked by
an interrogatory voice what was my relation with a girl I had met in London
( but with whom I was not romantically entangled). I remember answering the
voice that I loved her. That triggered of the most amazing feeling in my
head , a small explosion of light which brought me to waking consciousness
with the memory of the conversation clearly imprinted in it. <snip>
Shortly after thatI had a "vision" of a druid like figure next to my bed,
with me in a half asleep state, watching both the druid as well as the
curtains flapping in the sea breeze and the fan whirring overhead. The druid
was saying something incomprehensible and I was vaguely uneasy.
I probably was , from I understood later, having an OBE experience.
**********
I like most of you have had numerous dream symbolisms. Snakes, natural
disasters - tidal waves, earthquakes tornadoes etc.., recently had a dream
symbol of 7 different statues coming to life, a cobra was one of them.
Occasionally when in that half dream state I see a spiral pattern in my
third eye - it is black and white. Another time I was shown eternity,
through my third eye. In my normal consciousness I cannot recall what this
was or looked like...I guess you can't put eternity into a labelled box..
LOL!
**********
In my sleep I would receive
direction...."Read the book of Enoch." "The Koran is safe", "learn about
Qumran" "understand the mysteries of Montana", "study Zoroaster"
**********
There was also the evening of my k-awakening, I was drawn to read a passage
from a book stacked in my cd collection. I had never read it before. I had
lost both cds in the box but always kept the book. It was channeling at the
Tareth center in Glastonbury, it was all about the changing of the world. I
had never read it before but it went on about the higher vibrations. The
sacred sites around the world opening to increase the vibration of the whole
planet. Awakening the energies that had been put into the Earth long ago by
Merlin etc. The booklet was 'Return to the Source' Sacred Sites. As I read
it I felt it penetrate my whole being, again as if it had been channeled for
me. I felt prescence in the room.
***********
I would have wild colorful lucid dreams--often with Hindu and Buddhist
overtones. I've also had many pantheistic dreams---dreams of cougars, crows,
a mongoose, hippo-Rhinos, and pastoral dreams of gallivanting sheep/goats.
**********
I don't have any vision that appears to me when I am "awake". Whatever
symbolism that reaches my "conscious" mind, comes to me through my dreams.
Nothing that is obviously religious. The key word is: Water. Water is often
interpreted as representing sexual energy which itself is closely connected
to K energy. So, whenever I dream of water, I interpret it as a signpost
that indicates the state of purity and preparedness of my sexual
energy....<snip>
I have
dreamt of hydroelectric power station. I would visit them, go on the top and
see how a powerful stream of water would flow through the turbines. Most of
the time, such dreams would come the same night after I purposefully
practiced some sort of Sexual Alchemy or otherwise tried to raise the sexual
energy.
###################
Question 2.
I never really had a religious upbringing, I always believed in God, but
never believed in organized religion, ... I always had a
million questions and never felt like I belonged in this world....God has
allowed me to ask some of those questions in my dreams and has answered some
and led me to the books "A Conversation with God", 1,2, & 3 for many of the
answers to the questions I have had.
*********
I was born into a
fairly ho-hum protestant congregational tradition. Going to Sunday
school each week, romping around with the other children, ended up
having a very large effect on me, <snip>I began spiraling away from my own
cultural
roots at that point. After a dispairing early adulthood, I came
across meditation, yoga and all of the the doors and understanding
that the eastern traditions provide. This occurred long before my K
opening. Once K opened, 15 years later, I was already well
established in a yogic way of life, so there was no question about
how to view what was going on. Mine was a yogic view by then, through
and through.
*********
Well, I have always liked fairytales...
**********
For me, this was totally separate from any religious experience. My
experience was spiritual and not religious and I make a big distinction. I
tended to be religious when young. I was brought up in a mainstream
protestant religion. Actually, my upbringing was fractured. My mother is
Mormon and my father Baptist. I went to the Baptist church with my father;
but, there was this real palpable tension about religion in the family. My
life has seemed to try to synthesize various religious point of views.
********
I have never meditated in my life. Never believed in God. Never disbelieved
in Him either.Just was too busy living to give it much thought. I have no
religion, though I am a Hindu by birth.
***********
I do not feel drawn to any particular religous figure or deity. However, I
have no doubt that some of my experiences are simply clearing and balancing
any residual conflicts that I may have with religion.
**************
I had
visions....One in particular illumined in me an understanding that all
religions have the "inner" and "outer"...the organized outer and the inner
mystical. The mystical is the root of Truth the same to all religions..
i.e. as mentioned before "a rose is a rose by any other name".... the
"outer" religion" meets the people where their differing cultures and
upbringing allows...It is greatly influenced and manipulated by men (most
well meaning as I choose to believe).
***********
I would say they have reflected 'new age' more than any other religion. But
as I say, the sources I have tapped information from are usually quite
diverse and the specifics are imposed by myself. I like to view the
situation from the furthest marker, to maintain the biggest picture.
Sometimes I get drawn in, but this is usually to show me something I am
missing. I can always find my way back. The religion of my upbringing was
christianity. I have had problems with its doctrine for as long as I can
remember.
If I was to start a religion my laws would be Everything happens for a
reason and there are no such things as coincidences (Very Celestine
prophecy), and everything is respective of perspective.
**********
My parents were agnostic and atheist. I did go to Episcopalian Sunday school
for a while, but I was always rather scornful of religions from an early age.
My sisters are both Tibetan Buddhists, which certainly explains the Tibetan
dreams. I'd say, generally, that they reflected post K mysticism rather than
religion, though.
*************
I was raised as a catholic. My parents are practicing and my mother is
especially fond of the Virgin Mary. As I mentioned earlier, I even went to
see the Pope who was visiting, to cheer him up. But, as I said, I never had
any dream that can be qualified as religious. Can anyone tell me to which
religion an hydroelectric power station is a symbol of?
###############
Question 3.
These experiences definitely influenced my way of seeing things
and my understanding of God and his ways-- : )
*************
I would say there was "no looking back" to my Christian roots, but of
course there was. As my experience advanced over the years, I found
it necessary to honor my roots, the early exposure to "spiritual
community" and childhood revelations in Christianity. So I went back
and studied and came to understand my experience in Christian terms
as well. That was part of a further integration of yoga for me,
finding recognition of the truth of my experience in all the
traditions I encountered, including the one I was brought up in. I
found it to be the same human spiritual process in every religious
venue. For me, religion is relevant if it fits the experience, not
vice versa.
In the end, formal religion becomes less relevant as far as the
journey of the soul is concerned. I think Sai Baba said it best:
"It is good to be born in a religion, but not so good to die in one."
In the end the journey will transcend its own path.
*********
I believe in changing personal religion. I have been
a lot more rigid in my spiritual thinking than I was
able to see at the time. This has changed - I see a
bit better my conditional thinking . Yes, the
experiences have been important on many levels.
************
It all seems such a mystery....... I
became spiritual during those days when K erupted in me, and the remnants of
religion dropped away. Religion seems to be imposed from outside. It is
a circle of people all reinforcing one another since they can quote the same
words and go around in circles. Spirit and K come from within. It is the
true self, attempting to rediscover what is behind the layers and layers of
interpretation and programming placed on meaning in this experiential frame.
It is a radical self-discovery. Religion tends to cover-up and create
blankets of beliefs to crawl under and hide from the truth. K strips all
away until you are naked with only life left - raw and unfettered. You
in-corp-orate and reinvent constantly who you are. To me, K is the
antithesis of religion.
**********
Since Hindu thought is structured around K, I began to read and understand
all the bewildering facets of it. I am still irreligious, but I can
understand why religions are made. Can't say I agree with the philosophy,
though.
I like Krishnamurthy. " All religions are filth!"
************
I grew up in a very structured religous household. Fear and control seemed
to be predominant features. When I reached my late teens I began to
question 'The Truth' I was raised with. Over the ensuing months/years I met
a few key people (clairvoyants, teachers, healers) who were instrumental in
helping me cross a bridge. I came to realize that we lived in an incredible
Universe of energy.
**************
My beliefs today.... I'm a Christian. That's my outer....Why should that
change? Sure, my Christianity means something totally different to me
than most others but that is where I have been placed. Today I'm blessed to
have tremendous influence within realm of others and my presence or the
Divine presence within me sets an example of Love, freeing others too to
question the outer as the sole means and to pursue the inner. The outer
religion is filled with people desiring to understand.....sure many are
confused, angry, cynical and judgmental. Do so many of you really think the
greater good is served by dropping out of "religion"? Or judging any
religion as wrong? If you are so enlightened are you not doing the work of
the Divine by bringing your manifestation of the inner the Truth and
modeling it properly within the frame work of men. Is in not a necessary
step in the evolution of all mankind?
************
They showed me that religions are just that - religions. They frame the
spirit, mount it in a public gallery so that all can gaze upon it behind the
insecurity of man at certain opening and closing times, for fear someone
might steal it.
************
Well, judging by the religious "test" I'd have to say absolutely! :)
***********
I scored 0% for Roman Catholic! and 100% for New Age. That didn't surprise
me as for a few years I have considered myself as part of the New Age
movement. <snip>
My change of religion definitely preceded whatever experience I have had of
energy going up my spine. Kundalini is certainly making sure to proceed one
small step at a time, waiting to see that I am ready before moving forward.
This is why I have so far avoided the most troublesome K symptoms. That is,
up to now. I don't know what will happen next. :-)
***********
I have always somehow believed in God. Yet, when I was a teenager, I was
starting to seriously question the religion I inherited from my parents. I
was careful though not to throw away the baby with the bath water (He! Water
again!) like my older siblings did before me. At one stage, I was claiming:
"I don't believe in God" but at the same time, in my mind, I would think:
"God will forgive me: He/She/It knows what I mean".
I remained some years stuck between two modes of thinking, until I read a
book which has been a real eye opener for me: Ouspensky's "The Fourth Way".
************
I found my k awakening to be a cure for religion.
Could religion have been invented to be a substitute for k awakening?
*************
What I am seeing here, and in my own experience, is that the imagery
of K is its own, self contained, coming from within, always symbolic
of the primordial process going on within us. It appears that formal
religion may have little or nothing to do with this process. Is that
an eye opener, or what?
END
Thanks everyone!
Love, Hillary
http://www.onelist.com/community/Kundalini-Gateway
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org
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