To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/07/10 07:18
Subject: [K-list] More rants on yoga, free will and so on and so on
From: Mhortling
On 2000/07/10 07:18, Mhortling posted thus to the K-list:
Hi Mark !
Just a few more thoughts on the subject of different spiritual paths, the
time of practice it might take to get anywhere, etc. You wrote:
<The manipulation of the chakra symbols in Laya (ie. kundalini) Yoga requires
an <intense amount personal mental energy and control. The surrender comes
at a <much later date. These "Eastern" systems are all very heavily
ritualistic, <hence the creation of the mandala, of which it is said that the
physical world <must be seen as a projection of this ritual diagram (mandala)
so that the entire <manifest universe is perceived as an extension of the
practitioner. Hardly an <interior practice focused on surrender. >
You're absolutely right in saying that intense concentration and control is
required in kundalini as in most other yogas as well. I wouldn't necessarily
see the yogic techniques as being ritualistic however (dependes on one's
definition of ritual of course...)
To me all techniques, whether hatha-, laya-, raja- yoga, are basically just
tools by which we can consciously manipulate the mind, body and energy in
order to disentangle the real self and keep it from falsely identifying with
what is actually its creation.
The experience of sensing the outside physical universe as interior and part
of oneself, doesn't need to involve the use of ritual or mandalas, it can be
the result of just quieting the mind and senses and energy moving through
the higher chakras. At that point some amount of interior surrender has to
happen because the realisation is there that ego and personality were just a
very restricted and illusionary vision of the larger, universal self.
Also, my experience is that the awakened kundalini, which probably is one of
the major goal of most yogas, does require total surrender - thy will be done
- because the little "me" is simply dwarfed by this extreme and totally
impersonal force. During a major kundalini-rush, I distinctly felt that the
"I" , the person, was just a product of this shakti, that there was nothing
beyond it, so the sense of being "someone" is just blown to pieces. (It does
come back with a vengeance though :))
I don't feel that surrendering means to collapse helplessly in a heap on the
floor either - it might include performing intense sadhana for instance
...just as it might force one to accept disease or the living out of
unconscious and maybe not so pleasant patterns of behaviour.
And I'd say that surrender would also involve totally accepting whatever's
there, in the outer world as well as inside and to firmly realise that it's
all there for a good reason and then to work & live with that without
deluding oneself - which is tricky enough :)
<The truth is real, inner growth takes time! If it takes a minimum of eight
to >
<twelve years to become a doctoral candidate in the arts or sciences, how can
>
<we expect it to take any less to become proficient in esoteric practice?>
<There is no such thing as "a spiritual Welfare program".>
Yes, definitely, inner growth takes time ! I find that ultimately, real growth
really means to become less, to unlearn everything that I've accumulated as
certitude about myself and the rest of life. So, depending on how much excess
weight in terms of memories and firm beliefs and desires I run around with,
it will probably take longer or not...
In my view, most real spiritual disciplines and techniques ultimately just
serve to clean out all the accumulated junk.
Now the really bizarre factor comes into the equation once we allow for the
idea that, in the end, there might not be such a thing as free will at
all.That all our striving and following of different paths and disciplines,
letting go and struggling, experiencing and comparing is totally beyond our
control - in spite of working on awareness and being conscious yogis or
whatever.
Mmmh, yes, now that seems to be the mother of all tricky questions ...:)
Have a nice day all
Sheik Yerbouti
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.