To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/06/27 15:25
Subject: Digest 206, Tuesday, June 27, 2000 5:52 AM
From: percyval
On 2000/06/27 15:25, percyval posted thus to the K-list:
Digest 206, Tuesday, June 27, 2000 5:52 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 9 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Forgiveness
From: Robert Weil <Robert_WeilATnospamscientia.com>
2. hello!
From: nancyATnospamwtp.net
3. Re: Forgiveness
From: ckressATnospamaol.com
4. Re: Re:My vote for El
From: GCWein1111ATnospamaol.com
5. My vote for Jerry
From: ckressATnospamaol.com
6. Abuse and soul loss
From: "percyval" <percyvalATnospamrcn.com>
7. {K-List} Unsubscribe
From: CitarreATnospamaol.com
8. Re: {K-List} Unsubscribe
From: divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com
9. truth
From: Hbarrett47ATnospamaol.com
________
________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:36:45 +0100
From: Robert Weil <Robert_WeilATnospamscientia.com>
Subject: Re: Forgiveness
At 08:33 PM 6/25/00 EDT, you wrote:
snip>>Then I got it: I was feeling her soul's shame for the way she had
treated me
>during my childhood. I gently asked her, "Do you regret any mistakes you
may
>have made as a mother?"
>
>This time, her reply was sharp and defensive. "No!" Simultaneously, from
>her soul I heard, "Yes, yes..."
>
>Although she wasn't consciously aware of that pain, I could feel so much
>torment there and I knew it would be there to greet her full force when she
>leaves this life. My heart was so open I felt an overwhelming sadness for
>her, and without thinking, I blurted out, "You've been a wonderful mother."
>I knew it was untrue the instant I said it, but I felt an impelling need to
>give her that, to pour my forgiveness out to her right then, so that when
she
>finally encounters the terrible remorse in her soul, she'll carry a little
>cushion of my love to help her through it.
>
>As soon as I'd said it, she lit up and exclaimed, "Really? Was I?"
>
>"Yes, you were wonderful. Thank you for all you've done for me."
El,
Thanks a lot for that. Reminded me...
My mother allowed a whole bunch of abandonment to happen to me as a child.
Got to put it that way because she (at that time, as she was then, as I
know now) had little choice: she didn't engineer it as a master plan, so to
speak. But that didn't stop me me getting seriously alienated and angry at
her and my step-father. I really needed something I didn't get, and it took
something away from my sense of self, and I have paid highly in looking for
that illusion.
What changed between us was her coming to me several years ago and showing
herself as a real, limited human being, confessing a secret love that made
her happy and tremendously guilty all at once. I was only the third person
to know... In doing so, she took the risk of my rejection, and yet I think
she felt I would understand. She gave me that gift, her way of reaching to
me, and I suddenly saw how she was so like me in the fears and the regrets,
and knew she had never meant, in her soul, any harm to anyone.
It has been healing me because it meant I didn't need to be the victim,
only the shortstop on her pain.
My brother, nine years younger, whose life has been more conventional, was
appalled about the affair when he finally was told. His view of life was
more clear-cut, less "problematic", I suppose. Why should he have to
accomodate someone else's blatant imperfections, when he would not have
done that thing? I said to him that it is so difficult to assess another's
circumstances and decide how they (or he) ought to behave. And sometimes
having an open heart that hurts can get you into some complicated
situations...
Love
Rob
________
________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:35:39 -0000
From: nancyATnospamwtp.net
Subject: hello!
After thoroughly immersing myself in the physical world these past
several months, I wanted to reconnect with this group!
I'll listen for now and will post later...
Nancy
________
________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:59:06 EDT
From: ckressATnospamaol.com
Subject: Re: Forgiveness
In a message dated 06/26/2000 7:50:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Robert_WeilATnospamscientia.com writes:
<< I said to him that it is so difficult to assess another's
circumstances and decide how they (or he) ought to behave. And sometimes
having an open heart that hurts can get you into some complicated
situations... >>
Yes, and I also think that most situations are complicated, and when you're
in your heart, that becomes apparent. Otherwise, there is a tendency to
apply a one-size-fits-all formula of "This is always true and right, and
That
is always false and wrong." The latter seems to simplify things, while
actually creating a barrier to being present and attuned to the dynamic flow
of life.
El
________
________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:10:39 EDT
From: GCWein1111ATnospamaol.com
Subject: Re: Re:My vote for El
In a message dated 6/25/00 8:30:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
exnavy68ATnospamhotmail.com writes:
<<
>> BTW, l forgot to mention that because of my status as an eminent zen
>master my vote equals 10 of anyone else's, so William, you're behind 10 to
>0.
>Sorry.
You claim to be awake. Personally I believe that LOVE does not pick sides.
The light of love is a threefold flame in the chalice of the heart. Love
Wisdom and Power in balance will allow one to percieve truth
which is all we ever need to exist in harmony.
Peace John.
>>
Dear Johnji,
lf you knew me a little better you'd know that l make no claim to
be awake, and perhaps you also would have recognized that my intention with
the post you've quoted was more to amuse than to choose. l'm encouraged to
believe that William understood that by his return post. ln my post just
previous to the one you've quoted l complimented El's zany wit because,
again, this kind of humor is similar to my own and is one of the things
that's helped me survive 8 yrs of k.
peace,
zenmaster jerrysan rinpoche,
satguru to the stars
________
________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:28:40 EDT
From: ckressATnospamaol.com
Subject: My vote for Jerry
Jerry wrote:
<< <
>> BTW, l forgot to mention that because of my status as an eminent zen
>master my vote equals 10 of anyone else's, so William, you're behind 10 to
>0.
>Sorry.>>
John wrote:
<< You claim to be awake. Personally I believe that LOVE does not pick
sides.
The light of love is a threefold flame in the chalice of the heart. Love
Wisdom and Power in balance will allow one to percieve truth
which is all we ever need to exist in harmony.
Peace John.>>
Who was asking LOVE to pick sides? Are you LOVE? If so, you seem to have
broken your own commandment by siding against Jerry. Maybe you need to spend
less time staring into that 3-fold flame. Whatever voice in there told you
that YOU, and not Wim or me, are Love's one and only true representative,
was
making a joke. It tells everybody that, what a kidder...
I vote for Jerry for everything, including most likely to snore loudly while
fully awake.
El,
Dues-paying member of the K-list Mutual Admiration Society
________
________
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:54:59 -0400
From: "percyval" <percyvalATnospamrcn.com>
Subject: Abuse and soul loss
[ this post is forwarded from the edited version of the K-List... please
respond to the original poster and not to me... thanks... - percyval ]
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:36:41 -0700
To: "kundalini-l-eATnospamegroups.com" <kundalini-l-eATnospamegroups.com>
Subject: Abuse and soul loss
From: Robert Dorman <redormanATnospamtheofficenet.com>
I have read, in the edited edition of the list, several messages
relating to abuse, and its possible triggering of later K-awakening and
out-of-body travel. I have practice shamanic healing (Harner method
style) for around twenty years, and one of the techniques is called soul
retrieval. When a person undergoes a very traumatic experience, a part
of the person (we call "soul-fragment") leaves; a protection mechanism
to escape further damage. Unfortunately, the person is not "whole"
afterward, and often, the soul fragment does not return.
The abuse victim goes through life being dysfunctional to a greater or
lesser degree, depending on the degree of soul loss. Multiple traumas
can produce multiple soul fragment losses, and further dysfunction. A
shamanic practitioner, with the assistance of his "power animals" or
spirits guides, locates the lost soul fragments and negotiates with them
to return (if he forcefully returns them, they will just leave again).
After their return, and a period of time for integration, the person
begins to live "normally" again. It is a good idea, during this period
of time, for the person to have a support person, like a therapist, to
help them deal with the traumatic memories that can come back during the
integration period.
The soul retrieval, like some other healing therapies (Reiki, for
instance), CAN be done from a distance, so the shamanic practitioner and
the client do not have to be in the same location. For those of you who
have been abuse victims, I would suggest that you consider having a soul
retrieval done, but be sure to line up a support person, first--someone
who can compassionately handle your possible emotional outbursts without
freaking out! Also, many abuse victims are walking wounded; they have
suppressed all memory of the abuse. It is quite probable that some of
you on this list are abuse victims, and don't realize it. If you seem
to repeatedly have difficulty in your relationships, or seem spacy much
of the time, and can't seem to cope very well with life, it is possible
that you may be an abuse victim. But, opening up suppressed memories of
abuse is really something that should be done under professional or
experienced care. I wish every abuse victim could be restored to their
original, happy self, before they (which often happens), become abuse
perpetrators, themselves.
________
________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:47:28 EDT
From: CitarreATnospamaol.com
Subject: {K-List} Unsubscribe
I wish to unsubscribe, this is third e- mail requesting it.
To much e-mail, not enough time . Thanks
________
________
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:50:48 -0000
From: divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com
Subject: Re: {K-List} Unsubscribe
You unsubscribe in the same way you subscribed. Go to the same place
and just undo the process. We cant unsubscribe you.
If there is too much mail, subscribe to the web site read only. No
mail but you can still read and post at your leisure. That's what I
do.
Blessings,
Susan
--- In Kundalini-GatewayATnospamegroups.com, CitarreATnospama... wrote:
> I wish to unsubscribe, this is third e- mail requesting it.
> To much e-mail, not enough time . Thanks
________
________
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:06:57 EDT
From: Hbarrett47ATnospamaol.com
Subject: truth
I'm going to hog a little bandwidth tonight and post something I wrote to my
stepdaughter earlier today. The context isn't important, but I'll bet my
experience is common. H.
**********
**
*******************
I'm cheerful by nature, I think, but early on I decided being happy and
making peace was my job. For awhile I blamed this on my family because they
encouraged this, but I now see most of the responsibility was mine. Working
this job of spreading joy and happiness soon led to a conviction that I
would
not be loved any other way. It was as if my cheeriness was a generator that
gave power to a magnet that held people around me. No cheeriness, no magnet,
soon the people drift off. As a result, every time I was tired, pissy,
depressed, angry, whatever, somewhere inside I would start to panic. I HAD
to make myself happy, lest I face the possibility of abandonment. Over the
years I used all kinds of things to shore myself up -- wine, books,
shopping,
television, caffeine, painkillers, you name it. I never had much addiction
to any one substance, but I certainly have been compulsive about monitoring
and manipulating my moods. I told myself people just couldn't tolerate my
being unhappy since everybody leaned on me (of course I set it up that way).
The secret consolation was righteous superiority and self-pity that I'd
martyred myself by devoting my life to others. I'd give myself little treats
because I'd "earned them" (the irony being that if my head had been on
straight I would have just asked for things because I wanted them, no
special
sense of entitlement). Occasionally I'd send out little signals to people
that everything was not all right. I'd get very skinny or drink too much and
shoot out little projectiles of tense emotionality. But even if folks picked
up on my stuff, I'd turn down the consolation because I was unable to really
accept it. I couldn't take it in because it would have opened up all the
fear. Over and over I made choices that I thought would make other people
happy -- they weren't bad choices, I enjoyed a lot of them, but they weren't
completely true to my nature because I didn't trust that I KNEW my own
nature. The truth was that I was too afraid to really confront the black
hole in there that spews out the bad moods. And here is the really crucial
part: EVERYBODY HAS THE SAME BLACK HOLE! It is built in, part of the the
human condition. Nobody talks about it because everybody thinks that
existential loneliness is their own defect. My own understanding is the
black hole is the gateway to God. Without this emptiness, we'd never go
looking for our divinity. And it is my experience that if you face the black
hole head on, you really do pass through an event horizon and find the
glorious presence of the infinite on the other side. Whenever I get
impatient with my mood, I remember that it was a very bad mood that led to
the awakening 4 years ago when the universe cracked open and poured
overwhelming love and knowing into my head and I haven't been the same
since.
I now know that it is not up to others to accept me, though they probably
will. It is my task to fully integrate the parts of being human that I like
and enjoy with the parts I find painful, disgusting, embarrassing and
inconvenient. The more human I am, the more of God I see. It's that simple.
________
________
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.