To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/05/17 00:21
Subject: Re: [K-list] nadis
From: Wim Borsboom
On 2000/05/17 00:21, Wim Borsboom posted thus to the K-list:
Dear Ben
You wrote:
> The Nadi's , major and minor are not the same
> as nerves in the body at all. They have nothing in
> common with western biology.
I'm probably going to be a bit harsh in my response to you, but hang in
there, I mean well.
You seem not well informed on the issue of nadis and nerves. That
terminology and the descriptions come from two different paradigms that deal
with one and the same phenomenon (Whatever that phenomenon is.) As a young
kid I discovered some of this stuff all by myself, especially the chakric
types of energy centres, their feelings and visual aspects.Talking to my
parents about it did not work, as their frames of reference, their
'paradigm' did not coincide with mine. When I discovered the oriental
approach and description of these phenomena that I had discovered in myself,
I found they only partially overlapped and concurred with my experiences. It
was the same when I went deeper into the western approach, the 'nervous
plexi', to find a physical understanding for my experiences. Descriptions
are divergent as descriptions are culture, time and individual dependent. It
is actually useless to say: "This is not that" or "Only this is the right
description." I am a very experiential type of person, but words are also
important, I love them, descriptions are just as important, but when I find
that the description of my experiences gets other people into arguing
whether my experiences are valid or not valid because they are not according
to a certain tradition then I urge those arguing ppl. to hold off, to hang
in there and hear me out. Experience is what it IS about... not some
word-splitting exercise. Now, I am not afraid of the hair-splitting and I
would take you on if you insist. But... do we know enough Sanskrit, or do we
know enough of the original language used to describe, do we know enough of
the original culture, do we know what those people FELT when they described
what for example Nadis are, etc?
I happen to know quite a bit about that, language wise, memory wise,
experience wise....it is not just words for me...
You are using the word 'mind' a lot. The word 'manas' in its original
Sanskrit did not mean the same as the word 'mind' means now, in our current
time in western countries. Even in our Western culture at some point in the
past it was thought that the mind was located in the solar plexus area. In
Japanese culture that is even still the case (Martial Arts practices convey
that). So, many of your arguments do not hold, as your understanding of the
words do not match the original meanings of those words... that is a tricky
thing... reason for arguments, not means to corroborate and compare
experiences.
> Through all the phase states of matter
> solid.liquid.air.fire.....into mind.
> They are totally psychological.
> I stand by this point so firmly you would not believe.
As you say: "I would not believe..."
I hope you are not going to make me believe...
> Because if I failed to point out at every possible turn that these are not
> psychological things then the process of awakening, enlightenment
> can not be achieved.
Ben, there is no doubt about it that you went through some major awakening,
enlightenment even...
A cleansing of your mind from quite a bit of its conceptual baggage and
garbage. This gives you a strong conviction that the mind is the
quintessence of being..... ..... ..... not so!!!!!
> I stand by this point so firmly you would not believe.
As I said:
This gives you a strong conviction that the mind is the quintessence of
being.
You will have to change your stance on this... Better do it now and you will
prevent yourself a lot of grief. THIS is not debatable. Wham!!! Double
Whammy!!! !!! The mind is NOT IT.... OK?
Now that your mind is getting cleaned up, now you also need to transform
your use of the mind, the function of the mind... The mind is only a
function of the self, a tool, and not even an important one. It is possible
to dispense with it, in fact it is obligatory to dispense with it at some
point, especially when love (in all its manifestations) and truth (with all
its multi-splendoured facets) become involved, then the mind will have to
make place for divine wisdom to return to its original seat in the
SELF/self.
The mind is like a king (by the grace of God) who started to think that
everything lives for him, the king, that everything exists by the grace of
the king. Not so... The mind is a conceptualizing tool, it con-ceives, it
'grasps at THINGS indirectly through the senses and tries to make sense of
those things very often at the dispense of the senses. The mind creates
trouble for itself and the BEING it serves, especially when it starts to
censor the input from the senses as in: " This is allowed to be introduced
as evidence and this is not allowed to be introduced as evidence.' Pretty
poor functionality, don't you think? When the mind starts censoring the real
senses, it also starts creating pseudo sensations: para-noia.
A strong mind is not a mind that is convinced of its own discoveries,
concepts and inventions.
A strong mind is a nimble instrument that discovers and recovers
relationships..., relationships only, more it can not do: it analyses and
integrates. The mind loves to think that it is the creator of what it gets
served by the senses. The senses actually do not need the mind. The mind
actually... yes, yes, yes needs the senses... but it often usurps and rules
them...
:-) Also I stand by this point so firmly you would not believe. :-)
Looks like we have to slog it out ? No way... I have fought this fight
before, until ... never mind!
Very often we get ppl. on the list who display the rationalization you have
been coming to. It is important, very... but do not bite yourself into that
contentious bone like a dog that does not want to let go of it.
We call it here the 'Tony Syndrome'. After a certain venerable person. The
violated or traumatized mind has one great trick up its sleeve: it will
prevent you, cost what cost, to *surrender* to the next phase after
awakening or enlightenment ... and that is REALIZATION... working out the
reality of things... the IS-NESS, not the conceptuality.
A violated or traumatized mind either only analyses as in: "We are all
separate and there is no eternity" or it only integrates as in: "We are all
One, there is only God." The mind gets violated or traumatized when one's
mental-clarity-and-free-will 'at once' get doubted and taken away usually by
one's parents or peers.
Awakening? Enlightenment?
Could it be that you only just woke up... that you only just saw the light
of day... now you have to GET UP and REALIZE... that is make real... letting
go of the concept of mind whatsoever.
No mind, never mind, don't mind.
Enlightenment and Realization are not the same thing. In my case it took
from 1975 to 1996... Yes, that is a long time, actually many enlightened
persons don't even get to it in a lifetime...
Thanks for coming to this list, it was not for nothing... you will realize
:-)
Realization - Wisdom - Love (The three aspects of SELF as in "Sat Chit
Ananda")
But most of all Love,
Wim
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1/2344/5/_/680797/_/958548285/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.