To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/04/18 21:04
Subject: Re: Kundalini Questions not answerable by FAQ
From: Arturo Desimone
On 2000/04/18 21:04, Arturo Desimone posted thus to the K-list:
Thank you for answering my questions...there were two questions that I stated incorrectly, I'm sorry about that.
The first one I left incomplete, without stating the question:
3. Hatha yoga has been combined in the past with biofeedback technology, to
> yield extraordinary results (meditators had gained in weeks a mastery over
> various physical emotional states, a mastery which normally would have taken
> 5 years or rigorous training without biofeedback)
Can Kundalini Yoga be combined with Biofeedback technology?
If so, what do you think would be the outcome? Has it been done?
I'm sorry if this following statement is obnoxious but...
If Kundalini yoga works "16 times faster" [so I was told] than ordinary Yoga, then five times 16 would seem pretty useful for enlightening as many people as possible as fast as possible- it seems to me the world is in need of that. the figure of a training with results coming 80 times faster than ordinary yoga is probably incorrect of course, but I really feel this topic of K yoga with biofeedback-technology is worth bringing up for discussion.
2. When I brought up mental retardation, what I meant with it was stupidity in the extreme. I do not mean to be offensive, although I probably am, but the notion of mental retardation, of being too mentally incapacitated to able to imagine great beauty, to visualize or have visions, to make yourself laugh or make up a funny joke, to be creative, to learn new skills, to become whatever you want to become (a scientist, a writer, a traveler, poet, paramedic, etc.) to be intelligent and conscious enough to solve your own problems, to have a great intelligent conversation with someone, to avoid behavior that is stupid or harmful to others and to yourself, to have insights to have exhilarating dreams or any dreams at all, and much much more.
Being separated from these things, or unable to do any of them, is my definition of hell: being stupid, or being retarded. (Being 'average' also fits in there.)
I thought that Kundalini or giving shaktipat to retarded people, would help them achieve an awakening and allow them to enjoy a wider consciousness and intelligence. (I read about average people becoming, for example, artistically talented or suddenly being able to write a good book of poetry, after having their Kundalini awakening.)
My questions is: could this be true?
(Or would it leave the retarded person in a state of confusion and anxiety?)
(This occurred to me because I think it seems Kundalini yoga would be the most effective way to turn an average person into a genius.)
3. This might seem like I'm coming from the conspiracy-theory clique, but here it goes: Are you aware of the Orgone Accumulators invented by Wilhelm Reich, and would these be of any help in achieving/accelerating the achievement of a Kundalini awakening, or facilitating the conversion.
4.A more personal question: Could Kundalini awakening be more easily achieved in someone who has (borderline) schizophrenia, or who has undergone it? :)
5. Is the Cosmic Cobra Breath alone an effective way to achieve Kundalini awakening?
6. How long would it take for someone who has never done any kind of yoga before, to achieve a Kundalini awakening?
What research, do you ask? I am researching to start a 'holiday' Workshop not
for spiritual/psychological rejuvenation, but for increasing the Imagination, intuition/creativity and thought-processes in all participants. Increasing consciousness and intelligence, striving for 'subgenius' and, preferably, genius. The workshop would use all modalities available: sound, imagery, psychoactives, NLP, the Burroughs-Gysin dream machine, all of these things combined into one therapy. I think Kundalini yoga would be a milestone in the whole effort, especially if it can be combined with biofeedback tech. The "Cosmic Cobra Breath" exercise from Kriya yoga would definitely be included, as well as some methods developed by Aleister Crowley. The whole effort would probably be very much in the spirit of Robert Anton Wilson's "Intelligence Consciousness Revolution".
"The more conscious and intelligent you are, the more conscious and intelligent you want to become." -Timothy Leary
Hope I wasn't too obnoxious...oh well
Thank You,
Arturo Desimone
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
>At 05:42 PM 4/16/00 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> 1. If a man and a woman both have awakened Kundalini or shaktipat, and then
>> make a child, will that child be born with an awakened Kundalini or
>> shaktipat?
>
> All children are born awakened. Babies know that they are perfect and
>divine. At around age 2, individuation begins, (toilet training teaches them
>they are not perfect, and they learn to say "no") they grow an ego and forget
>that the social mask of personality they wear to please their parents is not
>who they really are. Awakened parents are less likely to put their children to
>"sleep" with disapproval, than unawakened ones.
>
>>
>> 2. If shaktipat is given to a mentally 'retarded' or incapacitated person,
>> what will the effects be, or what might they be, on that person's
>> consciousness and intelligence? It seems that people who are mentally
>> 'retarded' or 'incapacitated' would be the most in need for consciousness
>> elevation/intelligence increase.
>
> That question is probably inapplicable. Earlier societies believed in the
>"Holy fool", that retarded people were closer to God. Modern society makes
>different judgments.
>
>>
>> 3. Hatha yoga has been combined in the past with biofeedback technology, to
>> yield extraordinary results (meditators had gained in weeks a mastery over
>> various physical-emotional states, a mastery which normally would have taken
>> 5 years or rigorous training without biofeedback)
>
> This is a statement not a question.
>
>>
>> 4. What is, or what would kundalini-adepts consider to be the difference
>> between Intelligence and Consciousness? Is one just more mystical-sounding
>> than the other?
>
>
> Hmm.. I would say that consciousness does not require thought, only
>awareness, wheras intelligence is often associated with logic... a linear
>thinking process.
> A tree, or a rock is conscious, in it's own way, but it does not think like
>a human. A Zen Master exists in a state of no-thought.
> I have a silent mind, most of the time..yet, I know things that logically I
>could not know. Some would call this psychic ability. There are not IQ
>tests to
>measure that.
> Intuition makes leaps of knowing that logic cannot define or explain. Logic
>is a very limited faculty, intuition is not. Logic is linear, intuition works
>with a gestalt, a "eureka" of understanding that is not linear, not dependent
>on the information collected by the 5 senses. Understanding simply appears
>fully formed. It is listening, rather than thinking.
>
> Carl Jung said that the deepest level of the unconscious is the collective,
>and there all information resides. Ego is the separation. When Kundalini has
>diminished the ego's experience of being a separate individual, information
>flows up from the collective, from everywhere without the need for the
>"thinking" processes we call intellect. Logic is GIGO.. garbage in, garbage
>out. Like a computer, it makes calculations based on what is known, to come to
>a conclusion. Intuition does not.
> We can describe Kundalini as causing an increase in intellect, because an
>awakened person is using a greater part of their brain/mind than an unawakened
>one, who is dependent on thinking and logic. An awakened person is accessing
>the wisdom of the collective.
> To carry the computer metaphor farther, increasing intelligence is like
>building a bigger personal computer, more hard-drive, more Ram, better
>programs. Kundalini is like removing the harddrive altogether and deleting
>most
>of the programs, but hooking the individual computer up to the internet, to
>all
>the biggest supercomputers in the world. The computer now needs no harddrive
>storage space, because any information that would be needed can be downloaded
>instantaneously. Thinking programs are no longer needed, only a browser to
>display the information. The thinking happens elsewhere.
>
> Similarly, an unawakened person thinks of themselves as a separate
>individual, an awakened person knows themselves to be only a part of a larger
>whole, like a finger is part of the body. A finger does not need to think. It
>is impulsed to move, and it moves.
>
> Perhaps you have had the experience of going to sleep wondering about a
>problem, and *knowing* the solution upon awakening? In sleep, you carry the
>question into the realm of the unconscious, hand it over to the larger,
>non-linear part of your mind, and you bring the answer back with you, when
>you
>wake up.
>
> In Kundalini awakened people, the same process is enhanced so that
>sleep is
>not needed. The boundary between the conscious and the unconscious is
>radically
>changed... erased, so that what would be called the ego, is merged with the
>unconscious. What remains is simply a lens to allow the consciousness to
>function in linearity.. thinking is no longer linear. Information simply
>appears in the linear consciousness as needed.
> That is part of the meaning of "surrender"... which is the most important
>requirement of the process of awakening. Instead of thinking things over for
>yourself, with your rational ego mind, you hand the questions over to the
>bigger conciousness of the unconscious, the collective, "Divine wisdom", and
>intuition gives back the answer. This is the essence of such expressions of
>surrender as "Thy Will be done". Letting the infinite part of your mind guide
>you, instead of limited rational logic.
>
> There is an expression, "Know nothing, be everything", that describes the
>computer metaphor. What I think I know, has been handed over to Divine
>guidance, so my mind is silent and my thinking processes almost non-existent..
>depending on the degree of clarity I have, on any given day.. Yet, my
>consciousness is able to travel outside of my body and have the experience of
>being a tree, or a rock.
>
> Einstien set aside everything that was known about physics, and imagined
>what it was like to be a photon. He came back with intuitive, experiential
>knowledge that he formulated into E=MC2, and the theory of relativity.
> This is the difference between knowing and being. Knowing, is belief,
>intellect. Being is experiential, intuitive, felt. You cannot learn to ride a
>bicycle, from a book. The learning is experiential.
>
> He said "imagination is more important than knowledge".. he oughta know.
>Yet, he is considered a great intellect. What he learned, he did not discover
>via intellectual thinking, but via imagination. Intellect was used afterwards,
>to put the experience into words so the intuitive understanding could be
>communicated to those who had not had the experience.
> Do you begin to understand the difference?
>
>>
>> Also, what is the difference between Intelligence Increase and Consciousness
>> Expansion?
>
> I think I have explained that.. Consciousness expansion is partly a
>process of identification. Instead of thinking of "myself" as the individual
>ego mind and spearate personality, "My Self" is identified with the
>collective,
>and the individual body is simply a vessel for cosmic consciousness to
>manifest
>and have the experience of being human. I am that I am. All that is.
>
> Another way to put it, is that "you" are not your thoughts. You are the
>silent space they happen in. Right now you identify yourself with the mind
>that
>asks me these questions.. but I identify you as the silence of infinite spirit
>behind the questions, that is playing a role of being an individual human, for
>the experience of Being that, and has gotten so deep into the role that you
>have forgotten that is is a game.
> If I hold that perception of you, (thou art God, I Am God, We are God,
>God
>is All that Is.) Shaktipat occurs.
> On the level of the silence, I am you and you are me..We share the
>collective, we are both a part of that. Fingers of the same hand.
> God-dess is One, split into illusions of many, for the purposes of having
>experiences of love. Love requires "other". Infinite is not divisible, except
>in perception.
>
>>
>> Are there any meditations, yoga's or practices that you would consider to
>> more suited to cause dramatic increases in intelligence and consciousness
>> than Kundalini yoga, Siddha mahayoga, or Kriyas?
>
> An odd question, as you probably realize from what I've already written.
>If you want to increase your intelligence, Neuro linguistic programming is
>good. (NLP)
> If you want to expand your consciousness, then Kundalini awakening is the
>path, and once awakened, your own intuition would tell you what form is best
>suited to your growth. It is not about one being better than another, it is
>about which is best suited to you.
>
>>
>> 5. Is there any therapy you can give people undergoing Kundalini awakening?
>
> This question is too general to be answerable. Like asking what
>medication
>to give a person who is ill. Depends on the individual, and the illness. Most
>awakened people are not sick, and therefore do not need any therapy.
> A general answer, would be that psychiatry is an infant science that
>cannot comprehend the mind of the mystic, and tends to judge awakened
>people as
>insane. I advise awakened people to avoid psychiatry, for that reason.
> For a more specific answer, it would depend on the difficulties the
>individual is encountering, what therapy I would suggest. If I were to
>reccomend a form of psychiatry, it would be Jungian, because Jung was
>awakened.
>
> To answer the question in your mind, no, I am not a mental health
>professional, doctor, etc. I don't put any letters behind my name, I have no
>degrees from any university.
> I am a Shaman and a Mystic, and more folks than I could easily count,
>credit
>me with saving their lives and their sanity... and my method is the same as
>Einsteins.. I use my expamded consciousness to become them, and then put the
>intuitive knowing into words.
>
>>
>> 6. Once the Kundalini is awakened, is it common for a person to have a fear
>> of losing Kundalini/shakti or the consciousness and intelligence it
>entails?
>
> It is more common for them to fear the loss of their sanity!! :) :) :) To
>answer your question, tho, sometimes the K. does disappear for a while,
>this is
>called the dark night of the soul, or spiritual winter.. but usually, once it
>is awakened it remains. You cannot put the genii back in the bottle.
>
>>
>> All these questions are very important to me. Thank you for reading them.
>> I will use your answers for research purposes, as well as personal ones.
>
> Ah so.. what research are you doing?
> I will forward this post to the K-list, and use it to increase
>discussion..
>
>>
>> Looking forward to your reply,
>> -Arturo Desimone
>
> Blessings!
>
> Mystress Angelique Serpent, <http://www.domin8rex.com>http://www.domin8rex.com
> Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
> 8) :D ;) :0 :) ;P ;) :D |* ;) 8D :)
> <<<< I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
> <<<< than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
> <<<< -- Harry Emerson Fosdick
>
>
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