To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/01/31 18:53
Subject: [K-list] Tony MUST be right - how did we miss it?
From: Jon-Carl Lewis
On 2000/01/31 18:53, Jon-Carl Lewis posted thus to the K-list:
From: "Jon-Carl Lewis" <jclATnospamswcp.com>
Oh, Tony,
Angst, angst, angst and struggle, struggle, struggle.
As if the rest of us have no pain or past wounds. As if the rest of us do not care about evil.
Is this the point I am getting from you?
We are to hear reason after reason after reason why you feel we should act and belive the way you do -- and support you in whatever action you take -- about this man until we capitulate and do or say what it is that you think we should.
If that's the case, here's my capitulation:
You are most right, Tony on the topic of Sai Baba and all of the evidence and scriptures you bring to bear to prove your point.
Your much-speaking has somehow enlightened me, and I see the error and blindness with my heart-felt but misguided disagreements with your energies and your actions.
You are most right and correct Tony, and we thank you for your divine light and presence.
Bless you and here is sincere wish that you find peace in your heart someday over this issue.
Now here is another sincere wish: that we find peace in our in boxes on this issue well before then.
Please humbly accept my much curtailed response with all the love and trust you once formerly reserved for your teachers in enlightenment, although I am sure I will prove unworthy of this and fail you in some way.
Forgive me in advance.
Yours,
Jon-Carl
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 1/31/2000 at 1:26 PM Tony O'Clery wrote:
>From: Tony O'Clery <aocleryATnospamyahoo.com>
>
>Namaste Wim,
>
>I think you have missed the point altogether, my
>problem with S.B. and people like him is they have to
>be resisted. Evil however illusory at some level has
>to be fought at this level. The results can be left to
>the Lord.
>
>My injured ego has nothing to do with this, I have
>long since got over any feeling of resentment over
>what happened to me. You do not know my childhood so
>you cannot comment on it, but I have suffered abuse as
>well, in several different forms.
>
>I am not crying about that either. You will see that
>in this campaign the very people who were sexually
>molested by this fraud are the one's leading the band.
>They seem very happy with my participation and fully
>understand why I am doing it. The result will be left
>to the Lord/Devi.
>
>We all get caught in something in our lives it would
>be criminally remiss of me to walk away and say well
>the rest are on their own.
>
>Yes I have read the scriptures and understand them
>well. I also understand that Sankara said its real
>whilst you are in it, you have to deal with the world
>not run away. I am observing myself on this S.B thing
>and I wonder where it will all go, but I will do my
>bit to resist evil.
>
> I have been locked up for my beliefs in the past, I
>am not a non-action person. I will see this through to
>whatever end happens, that is my karmic flow. Hence
>nishkarma karma. No attachment it is a function that
>has to be done thats all.
>
>I have no chip on my shoulder, this has always been my
>karma in this life. I am not attached to it but I
>don't run away and put my intellectual head in the
>sand with my stupid arse in the air spouting rubbish.
>
>This operation is not free of danger and one of the
>fellows has already received threatening emails and
>been followed home three times. I will not talk about
>myself for I am not using any codename, and also
>expect some contact and may have already for all you
>know.
>
>I am part of an anti-S.B. movement that will help
>expose him and spare other people. Right now he is
>hiding behind a $2billion organisation not counting
>outside support industry, and tourism. There have been
>countless frauds and even murders.
>
>I had actually stopped writing about S.B. on this list
>but the point was raised again.
>
>It is not I but the father that is in me that does the
>work. The end result belongs to me, in the meantime I
>will carry on with the illusion that there is
>freewill.
>
>I suggest you go back to your aurasphere and stop
>writing this apologetic, drivvle.
>
>Believe me I am not fighting my ego on this, is it too
>hard to understand that evil has to be resisted,
>otherwise one is complicit.
>
>Om Namah Sivaya, Tony.
>If you really want to discuss S.B. let us spare this
>list and retire to the yahoo site.
>
>--- Wim Borsboom <aurasphereATnospamhome.com> wrote:
>> Dear Tony,
>>
>> The next post I was almost not going to send, I
>> notice my tone is maybe not
>> totally right, but I'll send it anyways... but
>> personally...
>> So Tony, I mean this well,
>> What I write may also sound simplistic, which it
>> is... :-)
>>
>> You wrote:
>> (well you know what you wrote)
>>
>> Wim:
>> The traditional ways to fight the Hitlers, the
>> Neros, the "bastards" is not
>> effective...
>> For now I can only suggest that you find a different
>> approach... lest you
>> actually add fuel to the fire of illusive (yes
>> illusive again!) evil. The
>> Baghavat Gita has enough in it to get you going...
>> and keep you right... you
>> may have to understand it differently than some
>> traditional commentaries
>> suggest. The way you are going about it is not the
>> way, and ... the "other
>> way... the only way" has nothing to do with sitting
>> idly by... in effect it
>> is more... not even more ...it IS effective.
>> What you also need to keep in mind is that you have
>> not been sexually abused
>> by Sai Baba. Only your illusive pride has been hung
>> out in the open. (Which
>> you actually don't mind, I think, that is good!)
>> Those that have been
>> (ab)used, like I have been in my life at various
>> times (by others but
>> similarly) deal with this issue differently than you
>> can imagine... Leave
>> their healing in their hands... You have been caught
>> and had differently,
>> pride, disappointment, your time investment, honour,
>> etc... Figure that out
>> first. I notice that you have all the knowledge, you
>> quote well, from the
>> right texts... etc. But you have to claim this
>> knowledge, digest this
>> knowledge, be one with it, wisdomize it.... You know
>> that anyway... so...
>> You are fighting on the wrong front at the
>> moment...you are fighting your
>> 'ego' and other's 'ego' with your 'ego'. All these
>> egos are OBJECTS. This
>> whole fight is therefore on the illusive plain of
>> Kurukshetra. Ego is
>> *you-as-subject* do not objectify it in your
>> struggle with *it(?)*. Dealing
>> compassionately with self and other selves is
>> ahimsa. Thorough understanding
>> of the dynamics and strategies of power abuse is
>> needed, (your self
>> developed understanding... without any chips on your
>> shoulders clouding the
>> understanding) that is ahimsa as well and so on...
>> If you react to this what I write, do not come up
>> with any stock answers.
>> Those answers have all been heard before... also on
>> this list.
>>
>> Love,
>> Wim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>=====
>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/sathyasaibaba
>http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/escapesai1.htm
>
>ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
>THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,
>MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
>OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.
>__________________
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