To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/01/25 15:18
Subject: Re: [K-list] That S.B. again. D.Bailey.
From: Gcwein1111
On 2000/01/25 15:18, Gcwein1111 posted thus to the K-list:
From: GCWein1111ATnospamaol.com
In a message dated 1/23/00 3:36:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, DruoutATnospamaol.com
writes:
<<
"One should not be deceived by the external appearance of a *jnani.* [sage,
one who has realized the Self] ...When he seems keenly interested in the
wonders of the world, he is only ridiculing the ignorance born of
superimposition. If he appears indulging in sexual pleasures, he must be
taken to enjoy the ever-inherent Bliss of the Self, which, divided Itself
into the individual self and the Universal Self, delights in their reunion
to
regain Its original Nature. ... All his actions should be taken to be only
divine manifestations on the plane of humanity. There should not arise even
the least doubt as to his being emancipated while yet alive. He lives only
for the good of the world. >>
Hello Hillary,
Well, ha ha, l guess my first question would be whether
Ramana would've considered SB to be a jnani. My own guess is that he
wouldn't have, as l have known many teachers who did not have that opinion
of SB. Sex is not the main fault l find with SB, but rather fraud on a huge,
perhaps unprecedented scale, at least based on what l know. And even before
the sex and fraud were clearly apparent, he didn't conduct himself like a
true jnani, in my opinion. lf it were sex alone, believe me, l'd be singing
a different tune.
Also, l have always tried to follow Ramana's words in the
sense of trying not to just go by the outward conduct of a teacher.
Muktananda had his sexual scandals, but l've always been reluctant to condemn
him for them. Many of the women later said that it didn't feel like sex in
the ordinary sense, and there's no question that Muktananda was a powerful
master with great power that he used to help many. l could go on and discuss
several others like this. l am troubled by the sexual scandals of so many of
the masters, to be sure. And l imagine that Ramana made these statements
before so many lndians came to the west and screwed up on such a large scale,
leaving me uncertain about what he would have said about some of them.
But although l'm troubled by
it, l don't leap to condemn many of them either. l try to get as much info as
possible in order to determine in each case whether we have a true master
engaged in sexual conduct, or whether we simply have a phony guru -- one who
either never had it, or one who had it and lost his way. l'm convinced we've
seen plenty of all of these. This is a judgment that l need to make for
myself and not rely on the words of a dead master, even a great master. l
feel it comes down to specific cases and the facts of each case, not
spiritual axioms. Let's keep an open mind in each case and look at the
evidence that comes forth. Perhaps it appears l haven't been open minded
about SB, but alot of stuff has been coming out for a long time. But even
with that, there are still questions in my mind, and l'd like to get more
info. Hey, even after all l've said, l'd still like to believe in him! Not
out of any dependency -- he was never my teacher. l want to believe in all
the eastern teachers. l just know too much to do so.
love,
jerry
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