To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/01/25 11:56
Subject: [K-list] What do truly "straight" people REALLY know about gays
From: Jon-Carl Lewis
On 2000/01/25 11:56, Jon-Carl Lewis posted thus to the K-list:
From: "Jon-Carl Lewis" <jclATnospamswcp.com>
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 1/25/2000 at 5:16 PM Ville Vainio wrote:
>From: Ville Vainio <vvainioATnospamtp.spt.fi>
>
>On Sat, 22 Jan 2000, luz . wrote:
>
>I believe that the glorification of heterosexuality is a result of 60's
>LSD-spirituality, which is more "colourful" and groovy than the previous
>ascetic, elitistic, airtight versions of spirituality. Psychedelic
>experience can be extremely heterosexual, the experiencer conjures up all
>kinds of screwing-the-mother-earth and eternal-flow-of-glowing-flesh-life
>fantasies. This is the same slot where the interpersonal left-hand-path
>tantra goes. Two guys buttfucking each other just doesn't have the same
>place in these sex-is-sacred fantasies.
>
Not for you. Which is part of the point I am upset about.
I and most of my "gay" friends have experienced the sacred, numinous power of fucking women, to be blunt.
We know both sides.
It pisses me off when persons with only one-sided experience make pronouncements about which side of the fence is preferable, and then use your spiritual constructs to justify your own bias.
I am also a person with a degree in biology, an interest in evolutionary psychology, and I spend a lot of time talking to women and men, about both homo- and hetero eroticism.
Perhaps I bristle, therefore when I see someone or a society (actually its the person who willingly stands in for the collective voice) pretending they know better BECAUSE of their great ignorance.
Being proud of one's ignorance or one's limitations is NOT something I would go around and trumpet.
I respect people's limitations, and I respect my own, but I try not to make pronouncements and judgments about things THAT DON'T AFFECT ME of which I have no experience.
If you're completely straight, fine (that includes having sex with a guy where you didn't like it or felt like you shouldn't like it - I know many 'straight' guys have fooled around with other guys but its not GAY).
Then walk away from the issue. NO fault no foul. Nobody asked you to know anything about this anyway.
And maybe I'm not saying DON'T discuss it.
Just have some humility won't you about the experiences and spiritual practices (and I mean this for everybody so inclined, not just Ville) which happen to go beyond your own in certain places.
I will try to do the same.
In other words, I hate being lectured out of the depths of someone's own ignorance.
Yours,
Jon-Carl
btw, Ville, if you or any of these suspects of "deviant" sex - knowledgeable as you are - were to tell me about your experiences with same sex encounters, that might be an interesting discussion on how our PERCEPTIONS of them differed, but NOT on the basis of my version of absolute truth vs. your version of absolute truth.
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