To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/01/25 10:11
Subject: [K-list] Bounders and boundaries
From: Robert Weil
On 2000/01/25 10:11, Robert Weil posted thus to the K-list:
From: Robert Weil <Robert_WeilATnospamScientia.com>
Hello all,
I'd like to kick something around a bit, which has me a little bemused.
I'll try to be clear about it, but I'm in a little confusion, so scuse if I
seem confusing. Also, I don't know how to put it in a few words, so let me
please draw you a fuller picture... :) I want to know what you think, even
if you think I'm deluded...
btw, I'm back online Thursday, so I'll be able to read any replies then,
and reply.
On the SonEagle website, I saw this, among other things like it:
Warriors way / leadership skills
* to honour and respect
* to align words with actions
* to respect limits and boundaries
* to be responsible and disciplined
* to demonstrate right use of power
Shadow aspects of the Warrior
* rebellion
* authority issues
* patterns of invisibility: hiding or holding back
* working behind the scenes
* riding the coattails of powerful people
All well and good. Sounds like a *fine* way to be. I mean, you can't argue
with words like "honour" and "responsible", can you? However, I was looking
at how this could be slightly distorted by one's opinion of oneself and
others. So I started to scratch away at it. (Can't leave well enough alone,
it seems...)
"* to respect limits and boundaries": this is fine, as long as we
understand why the limits exist, and we agree with them, otherwise we may
be drawn to rebel ("bad"). An example: a local factory pollutes a river,
and is fined a paltry amount. The local ppl demonstrate about it, impede
the lorries to the factory and police arrest the ringleaders.
Who is right? By whose yardstick? Who stepped over the line? Was rebellion
bad? Depends on your take on economics and the status quo, perhaps. Were
the townsppl direspectful of their local employers and laws? Were the
employers disrespectful by their polluting the local ecosystem? Do two
wrongs make a right? Answers on a postcard please...
"* working behind the scenes": This is a shadow aspect? Must we always show
our hand, and is this wise?
And I think of a post I saw which talked about how a member of another list
felt angry at the apparent lack of response to him, denounced them as fakes
and quit the list. The ppl left were largely seasoned Golden Dawn members,
who had not disclosed their background or their experience. They apparently
felt he had to do what he had to do, and had cancelled himself out of the
club, angry at feeling noone was offering him what he needed.
The bloke who left in a dudgeon was right about one thing: they were not
open with him. They might have told him who they actually were. What good?
Well, it might have shown him they were not hiding anything from him.
Perhaps this is what he needed, to learn trust. It is hard to trust someone
who you feel has a hidden agenda in imparting their "knowledge".
For their part, the other members deemed it possibly wiser to keep their
real affiliation from him and others, perhaps because they did not want to
draw attention to externals in their work. Whichever, here he goes, and
they shake their heads and say "another one not ready".
So now I'm getting a crawly feeling, which creeps in and says "we know the
way to be, fail to be it and we will know you are not the [insert as
appropriate] we are". And that's deeply sad.
Now this might be all my own stuff: but I think not. I have been on the
receiving end of this, more than once. I have been forced to smile at the
sometimes bitter irony of knowing things that will not be accepted within a
group, and being perceived as beyond the circle of divinely-led kindred
spirits. Walking away was painful, and I wonder why it happens. Of course,
sometimes I knew I had to leave without being able to be understood by the
group, as in the Emin, but it hurts when you have grown to love the ppl in
a group. Community is a teacher too. Be aware, I am not starting another
Sai Baba thread, though that too has a bearing, imo.
I know that there are always wiser/stronger/happier/more powerful ppl to
one, and the opposite too. How important is that? Useful, yes, and what a
boon to be able to help another. Yet I find myself wondering what swimmers
we leave buffeted in our wake as we steam into the bold sun of our
certainties, especially as a fleet.
Another thing, the warrior way described in the OneEagle page makes no
mention of nurturance, team-building, or encouragement. Presumably this is
segregated into another part of the person. Well, however you want to cut
it. For me, it is enough to learn to juggle without too many mistakes. And
any role you take on must be balanced: it is imo misleading to define a way
of being in a way that invites a metaphysical lorry to drive through it,
even if the definition comes from some sacred traditions. I have spoken. :)
I'm getting wordy: suffice to say that I am trying to understand something
that seems to shift like smoke when I look at it, and although I have
learned to live with uncertainty and doubt, I hope there is a way of
understanding this "thing" that makes me uneasy. I am not sure, but I'm
fairly certain that it isn't all my stuff: there is something there that
doesn't get questioned too often.
To what extent is it vital to human beings to use a communal setting to
define the boundaries that they place on their worldview? If I looked at
things in terms of Castaneda-type shamanism, would I be able to assimiliate
a Tibetan Buddhist's approach in my ultimate purpose? At what point could I
feel the acceptance, especially if we are involved in activities that
generate different responses in each of us? Eg while travelling with the
Buddhist, do I hunt a wild animal for food, or do I forego my methods to
accomodate her ahimsa? Whose view prevails, and if mine does, is my way
more correct/stronger (perhaps her compassion allowed me to do what she
would not, and perhaps she showed greater wisdom?)?
Sorry again for the long route, I hope the views were worth it: just trying
to sort an issue that has caused me pain, and I suspect is a cause of
dissent and division among ppl. And I expect I shall go to one of
SonEagle's ceremonies nearby in Feb, just to see the rhythm of the walk
they walk...
Love
Rob
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