To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/01/20 12:03
Subject: Re: [K-list] Conny Larsson's Story on Sai Baba.
From: freda
On 2000/01/20 12:03, freda posted thus to the K-list:
From: freda <fredaannATnospamseatac.net>
Cheryl Breisch wrote:
> From: Cheryl Breisch <cbreischATnospamexpress-news.net>
>
> Smilingjaguar1ATnospamcs.com wrote:
>
> > Well, go ahead and puke if it gives you joy. I am a "recovering mormon" and
> > this the most painful experience I have ever gone through. The founder of the
> > mormon church, joseph smith, would "lovingly" coerce young girls including 14
> > and 16 year olds that the only way to guarantee their place in heaven was
> > through marrying him and having sex.
Please, I understand your 'recovering mormon' blues, I was also mormon, and female,
it is easy to get all self rightous 'today' about what is as you say 'rumor'...
especially with todays more liberal society.
12 years old is not so unusual for marriage, in days gone by, although today it is
somewhat shocking.
and 'old joe' did not suggest that HE was the ONLY salvation for those he married.
It is, is it not, the teaching that women are to BE mothers?
hmmmm... in order to do what they believe to be thier duty to themselves and God and
humanity, these women needed husbands, and there were not near enough men to go
around.... these people were attempting to populate as quickly as possible a remote
area, with a 'strange' religion to boot!!! and not unlike other religions, the women
were required by their faith to marry into their own religion.
Of all the 'rumors' about the mormon religion this arguement is the least likely to
move me... there were very good reasons for multiple wives... for the survival of the
'tribe' many men took more than one wife, against their personal moral standards, and
1st wives had to agree, the system was probably as carefully fine tuned as could be,
if the man was unable to support his wives, and subsequent children they were not
allowed to 'keep' them, the care of herself and her children was willingly take on
by the church as a whole,
considering it really did go against the grain of most of the members those who took
the vows it was clearly an act of faith, not of perversion as you suggest.
To judge this after the fact, especially when YOU were not expected to make such a
jump in faith speaks volumes........
surely there were perverts among them as there are everywhere
besides, it was a directive from God was it not?... a pretty good one considering the
circumstaces.
> It is rumoured that he had up to as many
> > as 60 wives.
rumored? the records are very well kept... why speak of rumors? how about an
official count?
> These were not old woman who had no one to care for them, but the
> > young grape on the vine.
duh, they were marring in order to multiply, the old women were of little value for
childbearing, the young women needed men, which were in short supply. It is a damn
sight easier for a man to father healthy offspring later in life than it is for a
woman to give birth to healthy offspring later in life. And the older men were the
better catch, those who were already established as opposed to the young men who were
at a disadvantage because of their age.... lets face it it wasnt as easy as putting
in an application for a job and gettig guaranteed mimimum wage... homesteading was
hard, more failed and or died than made successes of themselves.
from the accouts I read, the older men were THE choice for most young women...looking
to marry. if a man could afford two or more wives, then the womans work load was
lighter as well. More hands to do the work and tend to the children.
> One of the early church leaders left because old joe
> > proposed marriage to his 12 year old daughter.
> Of course, some of these
> > marriages only lasted a few months.
yep, true enough, there was a trial period as I understand it, many of the 'wives'
got pregnant and asked to be set loose of their vows. Not just with ol joe, the trial
period was for the benifit of the women involved, NOT the men.
and how do I come to know this?
family history. It is all written down in journals, many are available from different
sourses in Utah in different places, they (the mormons) are big on family history,
for those who are unfamiliar with the mormons, it is a duty to keep clear family
records and geneology so there is an abundance of personal accounts to delve into.
at the time the big issues for these women was not how many other wives a man had,
but rather how well he provided for them.
Not the way we choose a spouse these days, it may make you wanna puke some more!! but
it was
the way it was then.
> Don't tell me that absolute power doesn't
> > corrupt absolutely. There is not one-no not one perfect person on this
> > planet. If anyone had truly achieved perfection-guess what, I don't think they
> > would stick around here with all of us trying to find our way and learning how
> > to love.
indeed. so why the judgements?
you and I no longer need 'the' church. There are many who do. Leave it and them be.
BTW what was it that led you to BE mormon in the 1st place.
I tried 'I was born into it" but that gave way with belief in free will...
perhaps some things just need to be experienced in order to learn from them?
One of the most difficult things I had to work thru was my "testamony', you had
yours, didnt you?
How do you reconcile it today?
brainwashing?
the 1st thing the book of mormon tells you to do is get on your knees and ASK for
guidance.
I did and was baptized at 21, cause I wouldnt be at 8, stuburn bitch even then.... :
)
how, I have wondered did I avoid it as a child only to delve into it as a young
adult?
I came away with the understanding that we recieve exactly what we expect to
recieve.
now then, I will step off my soapbox, with a great big appology for getting so far
off the topic.
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