To: K-list
Recieved: 2000/01/13 11:41
Subject: Re: [K-list] Really wondering .. Ville Vainio, Jenell, Mystress
From: Jenell
On 2000/01/13 11:41, Jenell posted thus to the K-list:
This thread is turning out VERY helpful to me, thank you for your
involvment in it, all that have contributed, but most especially to
Christopher. BTW, Christopher, very likely relevant to my own
'experience' is that I did have a 'death experience', though at a very
young age, wasn't told about it until just a few years ago, though I'd
always had some memories surrounding the event that I had not been able
to 'place'. When the stuff abut NDE first began to be shown on TV, at
first, just hearing others talk about it, (not then knowing that had
happened to me) I didn't pay much attention. But I still remember the
evening that there was a 'dramatization' of that experience shown on TV,
the 'going into the light', etc, and my reaction was so powerful, of
'recogition', I KNEW that experience, but didn't know how or why I
should have.
now, on to some of the things in this particular post. Since more than
one of us are batting this thig around, I'm going to start prefacing my
parts with (J) to try to minmize confusion over who said what.
Christopher Wynter wrote:
>
>
> >but making yoga exercises during awakened k might
> >"drive" the experience to a different direction.
>
> yes (J) that makes sense.
>
>
> My suggestion is to practice for the practice..
> if there is a purpose to the practice,
> then the outcome will be the experience of what you expected ...
> and you will be disappointed if it is not
(J) Yes, this I really picked up understanding of, not only in realtion
to meditation or K, but in most we do, that to focus on outcome, even
have an outcome in mind, is to close the door to possiblities.
>
>
> Meditation for a purpose (seeking) will provide an outcome
> limited by preconceptions (and the limitations of words and language
> to the key words stored in the body
(J) I try to overcoe/avoid this by trying o cultivate what i've heard
called, 'just sitting', or 'just seeing', observing without judgment of
what one is observing, waiting for what it will reveal to me by itself.
>
>
>
> >For me, the spinal phenomena usually happen when having been "blocked" for
> >some time, and the spinal "flow" or tingling "dissolves" the feeling of
> >being blocked.
During the many years of my adult life in which i was suppressing all
this, having been quite 'open' as a child, I sufferred sevre,
debiltating muscle spasms, beyond what any physical condition of my
spine explained. For over 20 yrs, muscle relaxants and pain releivers,
and often antidepressants, had been part of my daily diet. With my Re
awakening, they (the severe spasms) just dissolved away. In fact, a part
of what seemed to trigger my re awakening is having become so servely
debilitated with sciatic problems, and finding a really skilled massage
therapist i later learened is herself k awakened, and a energy healer,
she had in a few months, got me over that, and it was rwally the
beginning of all the spasm problem going away.
>
> and you were the one who was blocking or denying yourself ..
> a learned behavioural response to perceived external threat ..
> usually to survival or approval ...
(J) Very definitely! I recongnize this, can see in my chuldhood how and
when it happened.
>
>
> >
> >Hmm.... I don't think paranormal phenomena are a manifestation of
> >enlightenment (that's not probably what you meant, just wanted to clarify
> >a bit).
>
> oh yes they are ...
> enlightenment is bringing to the light of daily consciousness
> all of those things that have been running you ..
(J) Yes, that is exactly how i would put it myself. As it is by it's
very nature an expansion of awareness, it is very much a part of
enlightenment.
>
>
> both from this lifetime .. and also voices of long dead ancestors
> who spoke in languages familiar to my body
> but foreign to my mind ....
>
> > > which it seems is not usually a part of the experience of those
> > > deliberately practicing to 'raise k'.
>
> yes
>
(J) Because of that concept of 'outcome', and pre-determined
'expectation', we have in such a deliberate effort?
>
> perceptions and language of the perceiver .. and the need for recognition
> and acceptance behind the description given ...
> in other words .. who was the target audience of the description,
> and what was the effect sought by the describer ...
(J) makes sense.
> please, Jenell, don't put yourself down ... or make your experience wrong ...
(J) I don't think that i am. Of course, that could be there as a part of
my self deceptions, couldn't it?
> maybe you just don't have the (subconscious/unconscious)
(J) Not sure what you mean here. For/of what?
>
> >To me it seems that you have a very receptive, "open" nervous system while
> >many deliberate practitioners have a more "closed", blocked, static,
> >ego-guided nervous system.
>
> yes
> (J) I've now gone into some stuff related to spirutual mediums, 'sensivitves' that talk of the 'differences' in the way a medium or sensitives', 'etheric body' is made, and bingo! There was much i had not understood about myself much of my life, and why as ow again open, I suffer, as I did as an open child, much of the pain related to this. In past cultures where mediums were better understood and accepted, it was also accepted that they WERE 'sensitive' and even subject to injury as oter people are not, and it was recongized a need to protect them, shelter them, in some ways. I'm learning about ways in which i can be subject to injury, damage, of my etheric body, that are pecular to mediums, and have reconginized injuries of that sort I've experienced in the past, over my lifetime, and am working on healing those injuries now that I understand what happened to me, and why. In shamanism, it is talke dof hw we can 'lose' parts of ourself, of our soul, in traumaitc events, a!
nd of dong soul and energy retrieval to heal it, those concepts are especially apllicable to one that is a spiritual medium, for that can happen to us in ways beyond that of most people. I've realized that in mudium 'contacts' I actually have a part of my etheric body extended into those 'other realms', for instance, and after each such incident, I must 'come out' by reabsorbing, withdrawing, that part of me that is 'there' back into myself 'here', and a sudden 'breaking of the contact, a 'sudden tearing/breaking away' can actually be like a guillitine, cutting, tearing, a part of my etheric body off, leaving it 'trapped' there.
> >Thus, k can do it's work more freely inside you
> >and therefore you feel it differently. Perhaps that's why it awakened
> >spontaneously with you in the first place.
>
> or was not as repressed as it is in many others ...
>
(J) Probably. But also, i've had much of the repressions through
cultural conditioning ripped away from me in my life, in having
experienced traumatic events in my life, finding myself the one society
'rejects' on the basis of repressed beleifs, and when oe has experienced
being the 'unacceptable', one can no longer accept the prejudices
against them. By having myself been made to be an outcast under those
repressions of our society and culture, I had to reject the basis of
them.
> my experience is that in the majority of "seekers", the stronger the
> thrust for seeking, the greater the level of denial ..
> and the most traumatic the experience ...
>
(J) I think what is involved in that is the motivation behind the
seeking. Those seeking from motivation of affirming themselves, and
their accepted position and beleifs, ARE in for some shocks. they are
seeking strongly on 'outcome' and pre-formed expectations.
> I experienced trauma during my initial seeking .. and with the allowing
> the pain of the release gave way to periods of tension immediately followed
> by a great release ....
(J) I'm still experiencing that. Also in the mental sense, my mind will
'clear', then go through what i call 'brain storms', full of static,
difficult to focus and concentrate, then suddenly, clears again, this
time more clear that it was before, each time, it is more clear, my
understandings and perceptions a step further along. But those periods
of confusion, fuzziness, always seem to preceed each 'advance' in my
mental clarity and perceptions. As if I'm taking in new data, pausing to
'rpoces' it, rearrange what was alreayd there to accomadate it, then it
'clears', and it starts all over gain. I've likened it to my brain, my
entire mind, being re-programmed, being swithed over, upgraded, from an
old program, to a new, more comlex one, and it has to be done in step
stages.
>
> > > I'm really wondering if we are really talking about two or even more,
> > > quite diferent phenomen?
>
> nope .. but there are many perceptions .. depending on the teacher
> or the book you read .. and the filter set of beliefs
> that the learning was absorbed through ...
>
(J) I think the crux of what I'm questioning is that for some, it seems
an experienc percive mostly on a physical experience level, for me, it
has been largely mental/emotional level.
> >I think k is such a complex phenomenon
>
(J) No doubt.
> one of my expressions ..
> did you have the thought
> or did the thought have you ...
(J) YES! A form of being 'possessed', and perhaps even what was being
referred to in such as the bible of those 'possessed' by 'daemons'.
'Daemons' were thought to be what dictated our 'destiny', our 'fate'.
Were (are) they really 'negative thought forms'?
>
>
Thanks to all helping explore in this thread.
Jenell
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