To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/11/30 04:41
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Sckeptics* Anonymous
From: Steve Salter
On 1999/11/30 04:41, Steve Salter posted thus to the K-list:
Wim Borsboom wrote:
> Dear Freda,
>
> Thanks for your long response.
> Definitely love to answer you at some length, please bear with me if I get
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agh! Wait Stop! Freda! What have you done??!!!
hehee, just kidding Wim, I love your posts.
-Steve.
> carried away with my bad writing habits and other offensive :-)attitudes.
> Please take me lightly.
>
> You wrote:
> >I understand that I dont understand the particulars about this semen to the
> brain ...
>
> There is a Sanskrit term for this fenomenon, which I don't use. I try to
> limit my use of Sanskrit terms, as such terminology may alarm certain
> readers (and would not clarify anything anyway and would lead to
> skepticism). I use as much as possible western language and pictorization
> (is that a word?) without wanting to get into bio-technical stuff, in the
> first place because that is not my expertise, in the second place because I
> want to use my my limited English vocabulary to describe my experiences
> which are I admit very personal, (what else could they be?) which should not
> make them unbelievable. My experiences have lead me to 'my' discovery, truly
> not special but somewhat different from the norm (as All kundalites know who
> go through this wondrous process) )of the sanctity and divinity of all life
> (in all variations of energy/matter, from the immense collossal gross to
> finest, brocaded subtle) all energy manifestations in and of the universe...
> of which I want to bear witness. That is all because this is it.
> I do not write this to win over skeptics, have given up on that long ago. I
> write for ppl. who may be able to relate to this. Also I do not write to
> prove anything, please believe me, if proof is needed one can go to India
> where there are many yogis who are into proving these 'weird' fenomena...
> and it still does not convince.... I have indicated what books to read if
> one wants to check this out. I don't feel that I should repeat the eastern
> equivalent of my experiences. For me it was good enough to know that I was
> not alone and that i was not a freak.
> The reason I write about this is that something odd and rare(?) happened to
> me physically (With extremely strong spiritual connotations and
> repercussions. Of course!) that I at the time of occurrence did not
> understand and could not explain and which initially gave me great agony
> (happened to Teresa of Avila as well). Subsequently I read in various
> Sanskrit books reports of this occurrence. I have tried to explain my
> physical changes to my good friends in the medical profession and to
> psychiatrists and psychologists as well. (I never lost repect for them, even
> if they thought that what happened to me was odd. Nor did I lose their
> respect, in fact our friendships deepened.) To put myself at ease I had to
> search for corroboration so I tried to find descriptions or approximations
> of this in the medical literature and later on internet. Only one person
> wrote about nectar flow on the net and that was... Dan Winter (surely an odd
> person, aren't you Dan? But... oddity does not preclude believability). I
> met one person on Vancouver Island and have recently met with a well know
> athlete trainer from Hawaii who reported similar 'sweet things', also two
> Martial Arts masters (one of them a world champion twice over, which of
> course proves nothing.) The athletes called it (nectar) the "juice", and
> they reported on sweetness of saliva, as well as the sweet drops at the
> bottom of the skull above the soft palate. I have since met one lady here in
> Victoria who went *as a woman* through the same experience, the nectar flow.
> I have asked from the list if any women has/have experienced same and
> through what process, Obviously not seminal process, but by some vaginal
> secretion that may be identical to some sub-stance in semen. (One hopeful
> response so far.)
> I write about this openly, as I know from their descriptions of certain
> kryas, that some members on our K list are very close to it and that they
> may recognize the onset. The nectar flow can be preceded by rather fearful
> episodes. Episodes that are so strong (not dangerous as most books indicate,
> even though near suffocation and immensely deep panic or anxiety attacks may
> be the case) episodes so filled with fear that it will scare most Kundalites
> off... into episodes of regression stagnation and indeed "certified" mental
> illness. *Preventing* oneself to go through the fear *produces* mental
> illness, K retardation or K stagnation. Working through the fear, and I
> have in some of my posts given hints as how to understand the dynamics of
> this fear, will have one enter into the final stages of Kundalini towards
> self reintegration... and the nectar flow. The flow, which at some point
> becomes non-reversible (As attested in some old literature, I am testing
> this and am taking some risk doing this.) From there... other neat things
> are in store...
>
> >yet to understand you see it is something that is
> >unacceptable to 'my' brain, as of yet, I dont say it isnt something you
> >have experienced, it just goes against 'my' logic.
> >So, I read it and get on with other stuff, my mind isnt closed,
>
> >but I also dont understand how it is possible.
>
> I accept the 'your' logic problem fully. I am happy enough that you do not
> call me a liar. :-)
> As to understanding, I also do not understand HOW it is possible. Only know
> THAT it is possible, THAT it happens, even to a Wim B. like me, and that I
> am not alone, and that I would love to have other ppl. wanting to learn more
> about this issue and that I would like to see more fellow beings participate
> in this divine and glorious bliss... which by the way is everyone's due... I
> am just impatient :-) :-)
> If I could, I would force ppl to be in bliss and glory forever :-)
>
> Wim wrote:
> >> Just reading that gets my brain folds contorted and warped. Can't even
> tell
> >> left from right anymore. :-)
>
> Am not saying that what Tom wrote was a of Zen Koan quality, but it poduced
> some satorical laughter in me. (Happy laughter, not sarcastic!)
>
> >I wonder if it is a confusion between up and down your really having
> >trouble with, not left from right. : ))
> >THAT is humor, just in case you misunderstand.....
>
> I Appreciate it
>
> >....I am sorry because you seem to be offended that others
> >find your experiences odd enough that and ask for clarification, or
> proof...
>
> How can I convince you that I am not offended?
>
> >... and sorry that some of us need that proof.
>
> The need for proof has created many a disbeliever and keeps many a person in
> suffering.
> Jesus said something about that ... to do with faith ... but I better not
> carry on lest I offend some other sensitivities.
>
> >I'll never get it in this lifetime, being as a woman.
>
> But you can get the nectar flow !!!!!
> In earlier and other cultures that was/is denied to the woman, that is so
> absolutely unfair... and untrue...
> Is it to be striven for? NO!!!
> But it will be the result if you persist in the authentic fearless K process
> of reorigination and restoration of DIVINE SELF
>
> >It seems to me that if you have been blessed, or cursed,
> >with something outside of what is 'norm' for others
> > - seeminly the same as you, ie... human man...
> >then the burden of proof would be yours, its the way it works,
> >logical, not fair maybe, frustrating even to some I would suppose,
> >but understandable.
>
> As I said before, proof is not what I am after, and I don't understand why
> ppl would want proof if they can HAVE the experience of the physical
> participation in divine glory and bliss.
> Looking for proof may just be that what precludes the experience. (Would it
> not be funny if that were the case?)
> Proof would indeed be THE burden as dealing with "unbelief" (I mean this
> well) would quite likely stop the fenomenon and manifestation of the
> physical participation in divine glory and bliss.
>
> >I find is sometimes difficult to sort the garbage from the authentic in
> >the spiritual things,
>
> True enough. This is a physical manifestation though of spiritual wonder.
>
> >I have experienced things which I would not repeat to another human,
> >cause I cant explain it even to me.
> Have no fear, bear witness...
>
> >.....Knowing you will be called to the carpet by the masses,
> >YOu know you will, it wouldnt be an interesting topic if it were
> >otherwise,
>
> How should I understand this? I have no fear, and... I am not stupid.
>
> >quite frankly when I read you talking down to those who quesion you, I
> >read arrogance in your words, and a little, "ner, ner, ner ner,
> >I got upwards semen and youuuuu donnnnt, ner, ner, ner ner ner ner!"
>
> All I can tell you is that that is not the case. How can I convince you of
> that?
> Talking down, ah yes, you may be right, but what I wrote was not directed at
> you.
>
> People I write to, sometimes DO accept my stabs ....
> Talking down, yes have done that before, and am still so sorry about that.
> I might just be a slow learner... but in slow learning I am surely not the
> only one :-)
>
> I do not profess to be somebody perfect, I do not mind human faults.
> I do not mind anybody's faults, have we got any pride to lose?
> Because K ppl. don't mind they can absorb a stab or two... look at Jesus
> When Jesus asked some ppl to throw the first stone if they without sin, he
> did not throw a stone himself either.
> Sounded like a good jab though!
> The master athlete (which status I am not aiming for) still has to train and
> will miss the mark.
> The best master/mistress is his/her own best pupil/slave (m/f) (Offered to
> my dear Angelique.)
>
> >No matter your underlying jabs at those of us less enlightened than you.
>
> That feels like jab to me, but it is well taken and helpful in my process to
> receive more light (even if just the little stars that come with a black
> eye:-)
> There may be an end to the path towards enlightenment. There might not even
> be a path to enlightenment... but the light keeps on coming, thank god
>
> >I know I have a distance to travel yet before I have anything
> >that even remotely resembles enlightenment,
> >so your jabs, even though they are directed at others,
> > I read them and take them personally,
> >oh oh, that would make it MY problem,
> >yeah yeah yeah, I know that, that is why I am
> >jumping in on this : )
>
> You can still blame me for it, after all, reading my stuff has keyed you
> in... I accept my role in that.
> And I accept responsibility for that... maybe not all responibility... not
> enough maybe....
> But go ahead, BE mad at me. I may just be the bully you need to overcome.
>
> >Be genle with me, I'm at the bottom of the totem pole upon which you
> >sit,
>
> Oh kick me off it OK, you don't be gentle with me now, Freda :-)
>
> Thanks Freda,
> Love, Wim
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